T56 to 4L60 ???

[AGIT8D]

Not sure if anyone here has much experience with later vs newer model Commondore boxes/swaps but if anyone knows a thing or two, shout out here..


I have a 6 speed SS and I want to keep the wiring harness and swap to an auto.

If I get a 4L60 instead of the later model 4L60E will I not require to swap my harness to an auto one?

If this is correct, what else will I need to do in order to effectively change my car to an auto?

Change the shaft so the speedo picks up? Can use a 4L60E one I presume? Tailshaft and pedal box obviously..

If I'm running a big tranny cooler in the front bar will I still need to change my radiator to an auto one?

I'm looking to run a 3k stall so I can have lock-up as most cruises touch the freeway at some stage and I don't want the car sitting on the stall.

Big call I know changing FROM a manual TO an auto but I cbf sitting at sets of lights with a big cammed manual trying to take off. If this all goes down I'll probably even pull out the brand new cam gear and go for a much larger roller cam.

I can see myself breaking a lot less stuff doing things this way and my manual box will be put to good use remaining bolted to the LS1 in the drift car we're building.

Shed any light here if I've made this transition sound far more simple than it really is.

Happy stomp and steer times coming up if this is easy as I've made it out to be!

[Tocchi]

I can see myself breaking a lot less stuff doing things this way and my manual box will be put to good use remaining bolted to the LS1 in the drift car we're building.

hmmm last time i checked the autos were the weak point of the commos.

Mitch (waperf) was talking about how they just die and the only suitable (reliable) replacement was a turbo400 or something ??
but those are horrible for daily drivers

[AGIT8D]

Don't think mitch rebuilds autos??

I'm sure as hell not putting a stock one in. It'll be fully rebuilt fully manualised. 3 speed's are generally tougher but all depending how much you're putting through it. Shouldn't be anywhere near impossible to build a tough t700/4L60 that'll take up to 500rwhp.

[JME]

http://www.holinger.com.au/product_page.php?command=showbigitem&itemid2=309&itemtypeid=336&categorytype=Rear%20Wheel%20Drive%20Gearboxes

don't be soft :D

[AGIT8D]

The box is tough, it's the driveshafts, tailshaft donuts etc that's all weak. I'm not even mildly concerned about the 6 speed, that's why it's going behind the LS1 for drift duties in an import :)

I probably didnt make that clear enough in the first post.. The auto will eliminate a bit of the harshness the manual provides on limiter launches etc.. 3k stallie is pretty mediocre to how I take off/skid with a manual, and that's with only 300rwhp atm.

Have witnessed enough breakage elsewhere with manuals to see that maybe I'll save money later with an auto now. Plus selling my box and tex clutch + all the extra bits will practically pay for a built box.

[Tocchi]

Don't think mitch rebuilds autos??

I'm sure as hell not putting a stock one in. It'll be fully rebuilt fully manualised. 3 speed's are generally tougher but all depending how much you're putting through it. Shouldn't be anywhere near impossible to build a tough t700/4L60 that'll take up to 500rwhp.

he doesnt, but he tunes the cars that break them.
with a rebuilt auto, most shops give a warranty until 370rwhp. then it isnt covered




The box is tough, it's the driveshafts, tailshaft donuts etc that's all weak. I'm not even mildly concerned about the 6 speed, that's why it's going behind the LS1 for drift duties in an import :)

I probably didnt make that clear enough in the first post.. The auto will eliminate a bit of the harshness the manual provides on limiter launches etc.. 3k stallie is pretty mediocre to how I take off/skid with a manual, and that's with only 300rwhp atm.

Have witnessed enough breakage elsewhere with manuals to see that maybe I'll save money later with an auto now. Plus selling my box and tex clutch + all the extra bits will practically pay for a built box.
fair enough, cant wait to see the import.
but yeh, the autos line pressures fuck up big time.
ask Brad [VXLS1] what number gearbox he's onto now :p

[Nismo33]

pretty sure you can get a titanium input shaft and first gear for the auto's which is what will go I am guessing. I have been told they can take huge abuse if you spend the bucks! But them diff and axles will be an issue i guess!

[AGIT8D]

Haha yeah but more of an issue with a manual than an auto.

I've spoken to Brad and I was under the impression his drum kept going due to the workshop not the box/power. The line pressure was set too high and thus was covered under warranty and at no expense of his own?

Correct me if wrong here.

I've emailed the guy who built the engine to get his opinion and have started asking some contacts in the drag scene. I'm relatively confident a T700 will take abuse, it just depends if I'll give it abuse with the current engine or whether I'll pull out the cam and fit a monster one which'll bump up power and also mean that a 3k stall might not be enough which means I won't have lock up and then what's the point it's an expensive burnout car.

[AGIT8D]

Re: Import - Going to look at a free 180SX Friday ;)

[Tocchi]

I've spoken to Brad and I was under the impression his drum kept going due to the workshop not the box/power. The line pressure was set too high and thus was covered under warranty and at no expense of his own?

Correct me if wrong here.

umm im unsure. it would be best speaking to him :)

[AGIT8D]

Well I already did that and that was the impression I got. Mate who has spent many a season at the strip with a lot of the big boys said it's not a big ask to get a T700 to take the power I want from it.

Moreso what I wanted to find out was if my suspicions were correct about the simplicity of this conversion. Seems they are. 6 speed import v8 and tough auto stroker SS. It'll do.

[Tocchi]

sweet. seems you have it sorted.
hope it goes good!

[AGIT8D]

Sorted enough anyhow. As long as Josh will take my Tex single plate clutch for drift car. Can't see how it won't hold up to a tuned LS1 in a stripped (probably) S13.. Should be sweet. Can get box built incl buying box and huuuge cooler for just over $3k. Shall enquire about how much further we can go to make it uber tough..

[gt86wa]

I've emailed the guy who built the engine to get his opinion and have started asking some contacts in the drag scene. I'm relatively confident a T700 will take abuse, it just depends if I'll give it abuse with the current engine or whether I'll pull out the cam and fit a monster one which'll bump up power and also mean that a 3k stall might not be enough which means I won't have lock up and then what's the point it's an expensive burnout car.

Dan I dont get what you mean about not being able to run no more than 3k because you will lose the lock up feature
Pretty much all converters these days are lock up regardless of stall size.
Id run at least a 4 in yours.

[AGIT8D]

Not as far as I've found out mate. Generally a lock up will be effective in something up to a 3 then it just creates far too much heat etc. So I'm told.

3k suits me for street. Unless my cam goes bigger a 3k stall will be fine :)

[S_E]

If I'm running a big tranny cooler in the front bar will I still need to change my radiator to an auto one?


You can, having it going through the radiator aswell after the trans cooler would get the fluid up to temp quicker, but will be fine without.

[Tre-Cool]

manual to auto will require engine harness swap, no matter if its a 4l60 or 4l65e they are interchangable box's. you might get away with out changing harness if you go a full manualised 4 speed.

a properly built 4 speed auto's will handle upto and over 500rwhp but like all things it depends on parts and how much your willing to spend for longevity. putting a 30 year old 3 speed gearbox in should be suited only to someone who wants to save money or use the car for track work.

[SircatmaN]

If you end up selling the t56 PM me and let me know. Cheers!

[AGIT8D]

manual to auto will require engine harness swap, no matter if its a 4l60 or 4l65e they are interchangable box's. you might get away with out changing harness if you go a full manualised 4 speed.

a properly built 4 speed auto's will handle upto and over 500rwhp but like all things it depends on parts and how much your willing to spend for longevity. putting a 30 year old 3 speed gearbox in should be suited only to someone who wants to save money or use the car for track work.

It'll be fully manualised. I don't see the point in having an aggressive auto and then letting a computer shift it for you. If it came to it I'd keep a manual over the 3 speed. This car is built for the street and will see the occasional trip to the strip or swing pad.

I'll be investigating as far as I can how best to accommodate for power requirements around 500rwhp and the associated torque. Obviously I won't notch anywhere near 500 with the auto and the current cam setup. But it's enticing to consider going much bigger.. Flog off the 234/240 and step way up haha.

Cheers for your input!

[AGIT8D]

If you end up selling the t56 PM me and let me know. Cheers!

Sorry mate but if it comes outta my SS it'll stay bolted to the LS1 and go straight in another car. Going to look at a 180SX this Friday arvo :D

[KPWISHN]

If you want to do the job properly, get a 4L80E. The auto out of a Suburban. They cost about 8K i think but.

I wouldn't be too worried about breaking stuff if your not going to go to the drags to often. I broke so many axles and driveshafts due to poor driving more than anything. The odd breakage will occur but not worth wasting the fun of a manual just for the odd breakage. Especially when yours is going to be mainly a streeter. Popping the clutch FTW.

IF you are going to auto and want to keep to a reasonable budget then I'd go a T400. Plenty of extremely strong T400's around and for very reasonable dollars too. A huge stall won't be necessary in your car as it should have a good amount of low down power to get off the line anyway and will primarily be a streeter.

4L65E can also hold some power. I think Dan from Chipmaster had a 4L65E built by Stone's which was in his Monaro when it ran 10.2 @ 139 with a stock stall.

Talk to the guys that run fast LS1's at the drags with auto's. I think Mitch's ute runs a T400 and it obviously works a treat going sub 11. Not sure which box is in AGE01 but that too goes like a rocket pass after pass. Shane with the black 402 ute is getting an auto stuck in his ute ready for the next drag season. Maybe ask him what he's going with too.

My fingers hurt. Fkn essay. lol

[AGIT8D]

Haha thanks for all that Lewis. T400 means 3 speed which means pointless for streeter.

I'm in much the same boat as you where once I take it to the track I'm going to want to keep dropping my times til I get the best from the car. An auto will give me that and if it's fully manualised I can't see myself losing much enjoyment in the drivability but it's really hard to say after an amount of time.

If worst comes to worst when the motor's in if I haven't made up my mind I'll keep the manual in with the new clutch and see how it drives. I'm mainly concerned about streetability with the cam and manual.

When it comes to the track that's going to be a big learning curve anyway and if by some chance I wanted to swing it around a track with corners then a manual will be more exciting.

I'm waiting to hear back a few things from companies and that'll help me make up my mind once and for all. Basically, if a 4L60 won't take the punch I'll give it, I'll stay manual.

[rb200zr]

ring stone racing transmissions 94371526 they can build a 4l60e that is fully manual.they can even put a trans brake on it for u.they have made a new valve body for it that does away with the computer so u wont need a harness or change your computer.look in perth street car vol15 no4 for all info u need on this box or just ring them hope this helps

[AGIT8D]

Hahahahahahaha sorry mate but nooo way am I EVER calling Stone Racing. Too many mates have taken their cars there with shocking results. I want a box that can actually grab top gear.

Cheers for the offer anyway mate.

[scj91]

Top Quality Transimissions :)

[AGIT8D]

I don't think you have a 4L60 dude.. Do you know if they have experience with them? Not many people get decent results out of them when some serious power gets put through so I'm looking for an expert.

Gonzo from All Fast can hook me up with a big lock up converter but said 4L60 will fail either way. He said T400 but that doesn't suit me for the street so I dunno yet. I don't blame him for thinking 4L60 will fail after all the abortion shops over here are ruining them. They aren't that tough anyway but you can definitely bulk em up if you spend about $5k.

Decisions to be made :)

[OBSESIV]

Keep it manual you pingpingpingping!! Not like your gonna be driving it that much...

[gt86wa]

I don't think you have a 4L60 dude.. Do you know if they have experience with them? Not many people get decent results out of them when some serious power gets put through so I'm looking for an expert.

Gonzo from All Fast can hook me up with a big lock up converter but said 4L60 will fail either way.


Top Quality is owned by Gonzo

[scj91]

I don't think you have a 4L60 dude.. Do you know if they have experience with them? Not many people get decent results out of them when some serious power gets put through so I'm looking for an expert.

Gonzo from All Fast can hook me up with a big lock up converter but said 4L60 will fail either way. He said T400 but that doesn't suit me for the street so I dunno yet. I don't blame him for thinking 4L60 will fail after all the abortion shops over here are ruining them. They aren't that tough anyway but you can definitely bulk em up if you spend about $5k.

Decisions to be made :)


You were asking for places that'd build a decent box?
I told you,gearbox is still a gearbox at the end of the day,mostly same principles,and you'd think that a decently known workshop

And yeah,i *think* that Top Quality is a associate branch off of All fast,or visa versa. basically All fast reffers all gearbox rebuild's to Top Quality,Top Quality reffer all the Convertor needs to All fast.

[AGIT8D]

Not all gearboxes are gearboxes as far as I'm concerned. When you're dealing with a 4L60 that doesn't take as much of a hiding than other boxes everything needs to be spot on with the best parts to get longevity out of it. I daresay it's a lot easier to do a basic rebuild on a T350 or T400 and have it hold power relatively well.

The thread is called T56 to 4L60.. Why would I wanna know who can build anything but?

[vy ss ute m6]

cos your a soft pingpingpingping and scared of driving a big cammed manual. by the sounds of it you're a bit soft on the 4 speed options, so just stick with the manual...they aren't that hard to drive with the right tune in them to eliminate big dead spots etc...and they're heaps more fun.

[Drift_R32]

i was under the impression big power v8s arent always going to be street friendly.
after driving my ute around for awhile now with stock gears and stock clutch the cam does give u the shits when driving about town and stopping at 20 lights every km. id definately rathered a stalled built auto. also decent price on a clutch for an ls1 is up there with flywheel etc. which would u rather be rebiulding. bullet proof t400 which can take 10sec passes constantly or decent clutch costing 2k installed every time(not to mention risking breaking the t56 with such a heavy clutch)

ive just had the button clutch installed and im guessing its going to be even more of a pig to drive as at least the stock clutch offered some slippage to take off with stock gears.

my opinion anyways

[AGIT8D]

I've already got a tex Z grip sitting here, so that helped sway me a bit. I talked to Josh about it last night and said I'm gonna just try it with the manual and if I don't mind it then I'll stick it out and if it shits me I'll try to destroy the clutch and I'll go auto...

As for being a soft caarnt, I don't think I would have imported a stroker if I was. I probably would have just gone a head and cam package ;)

[vy ss ute m6]

I've already got a tex Z grip sitting here, so that helped sway me a bit. I talked to Josh about it last night and said I'm gonna just try it with the manual and if I don't mind it then I'll stick it out and if it shits me I'll try to destroy the clutch and I'll go auto...

Good move...you'll find that a Tex clutch, especially the Z, is surprisingly easy to drive, it has good manners and being able to slip it outta the hole makes drivability a breeze.



As for being a soft caarnt, I don't think I would have imported a stroker if I was. I probably would have just gone a head and cam package ;)

Maybe so...but lets see if you can catch this H/C package first:shake:

[scj91]

May i ask,why go to a 4L60 from t56 when you know that it's a hand grenade anyway?

[AGIT8D]

Already stated, I have a 6.7L stroker sitting here with a pretty aggressive 234/240 cam and I've watched a few boys destroy axles and CV's driving cars hard. My car is aimed for street and I don't wanna be stuck at lights with a big cam feeding clutch and accel to take off all the time. Also I personally think a decent auto will feed a nicer band of power down to the drivetrain than a limiter launch manual.

If you're talking about whether I knew the 4L60 was a shit box then no I didn't but I posted this elsewhere and I've got a lot of info since. Far as I can tell I can spend about 6k getting a tough as fuck one or about the same to get a 4L80.

I was chasing workshops to were able to produce such goods to handle ~500rwhp and the associated torque which comes with that. No-one yet has really spelled out a good WA shop, but I do have RVO Automatics in Vic and a couple of available boxes in US.

My 6sp and tex Z grip were gonna go in the 180SX but I'll trial it now with the manual (mainly to get the caarnt on the road) and see how it drives. If it's as smooth as Waz says it could be with the clutch package and a tune through Mitch and/or Tuna I'll progress to a 250ish cam and possibly then auto. Might even do low 11's. Doubt it but, those concrete walls looks appealing hahahaha ;)

[S133LTR]

so u got the free 180?? score!!

[AGIT8D]

Surely did mate. Just gotta get a trailer to bring it down or might see if Gerrin can winch it onto a tray bed..

[Tre-Cool]

Personally i'd see how the current cam in the stroker goes with the manual. if you find it a bit to rough look at going to a smaller cam.

the cam in my 402 is a 235/245 (crane) which is soon to be going into the bin as it's the biggest peice of shit ever made. i'll probably be dropping in a nice "baby" 224/228 to get some manners & fuel economy out of it.

What are you looking for with the stroker lots of bottom end torque or high rpm power readings?

[AGIT8D]

Something in the middle really. Don't care too much about low end torque as I tend to spend some time in the higher revs. Will be doin lots of skids and a bit of drags, maybe a track day or 2 while the manual is in.

I think it's the cheapest bet to keep the 6sp in and the new clutch and just see how it drives.. 235/245 is a pretty big cam. If I went auto I'd step up to something only slightly bigger than that.

[KPWISHN]

I think it's the cheapest bet to keep the 6sp in and the new clutch and just see how it drives.. 235/245 is a pretty big cam. If I went auto I'd step up to something only slightly bigger than that.

Sounds like you need a few teaspoons of cement Daniel son. :p That cam will be fine in a 402. There are far bigger ones getting around in 346's that deal with a manual.

[vy ss ute m6]

Sounds like you need a few teaspoons of cement Daniel son. :p That cam will be fine in a 402. There are far bigger ones getting around in 346's that deal with a manual.

Well said Lewis:cool: ...your's is another that proves that big cammed LSX animals aren't really that hard to drive, even if you do have a rather large amount of cubes haha:dizzy:

[AGIT8D]

Haha Lewis had his training wheels on for a fair few weeks there mate so that's not an entirely true comment. :)

I haven't heard of any ~240 cam's in 346's but hats off for that effort. Wonder how much time they spend on the street and how much they spend at the track.

Either way I'm not building this car to impress anyone else and if I want driveability from it without dropping a shitload of power I'd prefer to go auto than change to a small cam ;)

As I said above I'll just give the manual a go and see how she drives. You boy seem confident it won't piss me off so if that's the case it can stay in there :) If it does piss me off I'll either avoid lights or change something to get it more suited..

Thanks fuckers :)