Sard Injectors.

[1JZNOSHIT]

Looking to get some Sard injectors for 2JZ. They are very cheap, like $600 for a set of 650cc, brand new.

I have heard reports that they arent very reliable and their spray pattern is shite.

Does anyone use them or have experience with them?

My other option is Power Enterprise 650s for an extra $300.

Thoughts?

Cheers.

[DISTRBD]

My neo has SARDS , been in there 18 months n never had reason to doubt there ability

[Joe]

Sard = Gay.

My last motor popped because of my Sards...spray pattern is akin to a garden hose, washed my bores and contaminated the oil.

Some people have had good results with Sards, others not so good. The main thing with them is they are very hit and miss. Apparently some sets are a c*nt to tune with also, and some are easy.

[Brett_J]

Sard = Gay.

My last motor popped because of my Sards...spray pattern is akin to a garden hose, washed my bores and contaminated the oil.


Did you get them spray pattern tested Joe or assumed they were?

[Joe]

Spray pattern tested, after we discovered the heads had suspicious shiny spots in the ports from where the fuel was spraying up against them....they are just crude as all hell.

The oil had 12% fuel in it after 3000km (we had this analysed by an oil lab), due to a lack of atomisation which caused the bores to wash down. This in turn caused over 50% reduction in viscosity.

I had done 2 previous oil changes with these injectors, and it was obviously getting progressively worse...I'd say that the bores were becoming more glazed as time went on.

Bearings do not like 1.6 bar of boost, and oil which is half as good as it should be.

Changed the short block, and injectors over to high flowed stock injectors (Denso), and the oil is as clean as a whistle.

[joshg123]

yikes

[Joe]

Thats what I thought too Josh when I found out the results of the oil test! 12% fuel in the oil in just over half the service interval period, is insane.

[SimonR32]

Looking to get some Sard injectors for 2JZ. They are very cheap, like $600 for a set of 650cc, brand new.

I have heard reports that they arent very reliable and their spray pattern is shite.

Does anyone use them or have experience with them?

My other option is Power Enterprise 650s for an extra $300.

Thoughts?

Cheers.

who are power enterprise injectors made by?!?

probably rebadged sards or densos

[Joe]

Rebadged Sard's I believe..

[DISTRBD]

The oil had 12% fuel in it after 3000km (we had this analysed by an oil lab), due to a lack of atomisation which caused the bores to wash down. This in turn caused over 50% reduction in viscosity.


My car has oil n filter change before every event n wouldnt do 1000 ks on same oil .. Might be why i havnt had issue BUT now i know i might have them checked

[1JZNOSHIT]

Rebadged Sard's I believe..

They supply Densos.

Denso - Sard.... Same?

[JayVee]

This is not what I wanted to hear...

I'm about to put a set of 800cc SARDs in my Aristo.

I've never heard such issues from SARD, I was under the impression they were a good/great injector.

[Joe]

As I said, hit and miss.....I think its more a hit than a miss with the Sards, but I have heard of more than one set of Sards apart from mine that have been the same.

I'm also not sure if this is limited to the Sard top feeds used in Subarus, because all of the issues I've heard of have been with the Subaru specific Sard injectors.

Easy way to tell is ask your tuner how hard it was to get a smooth part throttle tune. If the Sards are spraying like a garden hose, it'll be a c*nt to tune.

Don't take my word for it, if you've got some Sards and you're concerned about it, just check your oil to see if it smells like fuel, and at the very worst, pull em out and get them flow tested.

[SimonR32]

As I said, hit and miss.....I think its more a hit than a miss with the Sards, but I have heard of more than one set of Sards apart from mine that have been the same.

I'm also not sure if this is limited to the Sard top feeds used in Subarus, because all of the issues I've heard of have been with the Subaru specific Sard injectors.

Easy way to tell is ask your tuner how hard it was to get a smooth part throttle tune. If the Sards are spraying like a garden hose, it'll be a c*nt to tune.

yeah ive never heard of any problems apart from yours and beaus joe... might be just dodgy subakooo shit :)

[Joe]

I cant remember who told me but someone with a Nissan told me they had a similar issue with their Sards.

Thats 3 that I've heard of personally with the same problem.

That being said though, thats out of the hundreds of sets of Sards out there, so who knows if its a particular batch that might be f*cked, or just bad luck?

[DCIEVE]

oil in my motor used to stink of fuel after a few drives and that was with nismo injectors. have sard now and no noticeable fuel in the oil, seems strange.

[ben351]

Sard = Gay.

My last motor popped because of my Sards...spray pattern is akin to a garden hose, washed my bores and contaminated the oil.

Some people have had good results with Sards, others not so good. The main thing with them is they are very hit and miss. Apparently some sets are a c*nt to tune with also, and some are easy.

what your trying to say is Sard = Nard

[1JZNOSHIT]

whats the equation for working out correct injector size for estimated horsepower?

[DCIEVE]

6cyl it works out to roughly 1rwhp per cc. More power you make the more headroom you will need. Ie 440cc stock gtr injectors were at 100% at 400rwhp but 700's I have now are maxed at 530rwhp, more conservative you are the more fuel your going to need.

[Brockas]

Injectors leaking into the cylinders, past the rings, and into the oil, is more likely an injector o-ring issue.

[1JZNOSHIT]

6cyl it works out to roughly 1rwhp per cc. More power you make the more headroom you will need. Ie 440cc stock gtr injectors were at 100% at 400rwhp but 700's I have now are maxed at 530rwhp, more conservative you are the more fuel your going to need.

cool, so for 450ish rwhp, 540s would be fine on a 6cyl.

might cut the Sards off and go some HongKongSpecial items.

[Joe]

Injectors leaking into the cylinders, past the rings, and into the oil, is more likely an injector o-ring issue.

That wasn't my problem Brockas....if the injectors leak in a Subaru, the fuel sits in the cylinders, rather than dropping into the sump.

My issue was the atomisation of the fuel. It didn't happen, and this washed the bores and also the ports in the head. The fuel would seep past the rings and into the oil, contaminating it.

[180SXTCY]

cant really comment on sard injectors as i havent used them before. What i can tell you however is that i have used Nismo injectors which are made by denso i beleive with very good results and no issues. Also have used top feed HKS injectors, also denso i think, with good results and very reliable

[DCIEVE]

cool, so for 450ish rwhp, 540s would be fine on a 6cyl.

might cut the Sards off and go some HongKongSpecial items.

being about to redo my fuel system for the 3rd time all I can say is go big first time! assuming your ecu is up to the task

[joshg123]

Thats what I thought too Josh when I found out the results of the oil test! 12% fuel in the oil in just over half the service interval period, is insane.

Yeh, im a bit nervous as SARD 850cc injectors are out there sitting in my built motor, last thing i want is something so small to bugger everything else up ie washed bores - my block is o-ringed so i dont really wanna take the head off again anytime soon

[Miami]

DO NOT TOUCH VENOM INJECTORS, whatever you do.

Supra people will most likely know what I'm on about. I have personally been burned by them as well, but only on the $500 i spent purchasing them - thankfully, of the 6 i bought, 3 were ratshit straight out of the box, so they never got the chance to do any engine damage.

[S133LTR]

ive been looking for 2JZ injectors atm too and the Blitz 850's are around the same sort of money as drop in sards (dunno about the collars) if that helps...

tweakit have a good kit fo around 1200 with top feed seimens (around the 800 mark) a turbosmart reg and top feed rail bt i dnt know about the quality of the rail.

Titan do a nice looking top feed rail kit for around 900 US but i dnt know what the injectors are yet..

Im stil looking for options aswell... what are ppls opinions on the sort of flow is the standard rail good for??.. if using dropins as opposed to a top feed rail??

[SLEEKA]

i've heard a few people say negative things about the sard injector, but theres been a hundred times that with good results proven on the dyno/street.

Im not worried, i have 800cc sard top feeds going into my build :D

[zeroyon]

Sard injectors = Fail. Well at least mine are.

I have a Brand new set here for sale if anyone wants to put there money where there mouth is and buy.

BRAND NEW only used to idle engine 800cc Sard top feed injectors with plugs(modded to fit) for $250. Tested and cleaned results - 100 100 100 98 95 93.

Cost me $650.

[S133LTR]

how did they fail?...

[SLEEKA]

Sard injectors = Fail. Well at least mine are.

I have a Brand new set here for sale if anyone wants to put there money where there mouth is and buy.

BRAND NEW only used to idle engine 800cc Sard top feed injectors with plugs(modded to fit) for $250. Tested and cleaned results - 100 100 100 98 95 93.

Cost me $650.

also keen to see why they failed, what engine did they come out of?

if i didnt already have a set, i would take these off your hands for 250....

[zeroyon]

how did they fail?...


100 100 100 98 95 93

thats the results of "brand new" injectors AFTER they have been tested and cleaned.

One brand new injector is still 7 % down on flow AFTER cleaning .... ie one cyclinder will be 7 % leaner then the others.

Out of the box two were more then 10 % down on flow. Which is enough for me to notice by reading the plugs that 2 cyclinders had less fuel. This was just at idle.

They are sold now too, 4cycl user going to setup the 4 best ones.

[S133LTR]

apparently powerflow batch buy and then test all injectors before they sell as new because this sort of thing is common?

wot did the spray pattern look like before/after cleaning..? they couldnt be cleaned enough to come back to 100??

ps. im not hanging any shit man im just trying to save my self some heart ache as i was very close to buying a sert of sard (DENSO.. thats who makes em?) injectors... and i need something soon.

[zeroyon]

yer i've always had new injectors tested. Never had an issue(5 + sets)
This was the first time I didn't and FAIL !

As far as I can tell Denso make Sard.

Pretty much all the aftermarket injectors are DENSO / SARD. That is HKS / power enterprise / Greddy that I have found.

Also Denso have move 30 % of there manufacturing to china.

[S133LTR]

so.. who does that leave..???

in terms of drop in... that is.. or i have just clued in on why ppl all go to top mount fuel rails (all this time i thought it was for flow)

[zeroyon]

Nismo and Tomei both seem to be using Jec's.

AFAIK jecs are the factory nissan injector of choice.

There is siemens and bosch too.

But i have had no experience with any of the above. Be interested to know if anyone has had new tomei or nismo injectors tested ??

[MrSparkle]

wouldnt fuel pressure affect spray pattern?

[pr0j3kt_supra]

damn all this bad talk of the sards :S was considering sards too so what is the injector of choice now?

[Fryman]

hks 1000's or bust!!!

just premix your fuel with oil and beat them at their own game!

[Joe]

1600cc Indy Blue methanol injectors.

[1JZVL]

1600cc Indy Blue methanol injectors.

erm

what are indy blues like.... ive seen a few VLs with them, 1600cc does seem like too much doesnt it?

[heller44]

Sard 700's, denso part number on the casing, same part as blitz, power enterprise.. don't know about any others, but it seems more than likely.

[mys1]

1600cc Indy Blue methanol injectors.

I think Jarrod had a couple of these on his RX-7....

There simillar to tipping a bucket of fuel into your manifold....

[zeroyon]

nismo injectors tested today, out of the box came up

110 109 108 108 108 106

Good but not great.