32 GTR UPGRADE QUIRIES?

[WAIT4ME]

Ive recently purchased 2xHKS GT-SS turbos, with full exhaust, power fc d-jetro, bosch 023 fuel pump, 660cc injectors, and undecided on what cams to go? if any??
Im after 400awhp, and just wondering what every else has done to theirs to achieve this power. also what cams would you recommend?
cheers for any feedback!

[Lonewolf]

tomei poncams, wont need to worry about valve springs

[AD4M]

tomei poncams, wont need to worry about valve springs

agreed, get the cam gears to go with them to dial them in for full effect. Mates GTR is making 400hp at the rears running 34 n1's on 20psi with the tomei drop in poncams. using the normal AFM style power fc.

anything larger will require the head to be removed to get clearance made for the lobes and if your gonna go that far might aswell make it a full recon.

[Brockas]

Cams on a 26 make very little difference.

If you want to get a set, 260 degree / 9.1mm lift Tomei Poncams will ensure they actually drop in.


Anything over 9.1mm lift wont drop in easily.

[masTers]

Would you really needs cams for 400atw with the gt-ss twins but?

[SimonR32]

id forget about the cams and start saving for a rebuild :)

[TJ]

Would you really needs cams for 400atw with the gt-ss twins but?

Nah no chance, should do it easily without.

[got boost]

id forget about the cams and start saving for a rebuild :)

id second this comment...

[WAIT4ME]

cheers guys thanks alot for all your feedback. think ill be going for stage 1's 272 in and exhaust.

[SimonR32]

cheers guys thanks alot for all your feedback. think ill be going for stage 1's 272 in and exhaust.


they are to big for your application...

[DCIEVE]

stage 1 272 with 8.something lift are too big?

[Brockas]

cheers guys thanks alot for all your feedback. think ill be going for stage 1's 272 in and exhaust.

lol so in other words, you've completely ignored all our advice.

You're welcome... I guess.

[WRCjosh]

bosch 023

not big enough for 400awhp

id suggest going the twin external route, or at least something bigger intank, they only flow enough for 500hp crank in a turbo application, thats cutting it too fine for my liking

[Brockas]

Nismo in tank pump for anything less than 550rwhp.

It's what Gav is running, mine's out of flow at 522 but more than likely because it's pretty tired.


If you run a twin 044 external setup you'll actually end up heating the fuel, as the flow is excessive for what is needed.

[WRCjosh]

well there ya go!

you'd agree 023 is too weak though right?

[Brockas]

Yup, limp wristed for sure!

[Passage GT]

mate has pretty much exact same setup in mind for his gts-4 (rb26) but i think he did get the tomei cams
he has an 040 in tank, would that support that kinda power?

[SLEEKA]

well there ya go!

you'd agree 023 is too weak though right?

an 023 is just an internal version of the 044 (ie it has a pickup at the base of the pump)

this will do the job fine, more flow than the nismo drop in pump

[SLEEKA]

they are to big for your application...

i think he typed in the wrong set, if he's going for cams it would be along the lines of tomie poncam 260 by 9.15lift, that should be fine with the stock head.

The cams wont be there to give massive up top gains, but will definately aid with the mid range, and for less than a grand its not a bad mod

[Brockas]

an 023 is just an internal version of the 044 (ie it has a pickup at the base of the pump)

Wait, what?

023 - 168 L/h
044 - 200 L/h

[SLEEKA]

as i was typing that, i knew i would get picked up on it haha

its closer to a 044 than it is a 040 is what im getting at (flow wise), but regardless a 023 should be fine for his application

[WRCjosh]

sorry mate i disagree. And its not that it wont do the job, it probably would, but theres just no room for error. It only supports 500hp at the crank in turbo applications, thats just not enough to support 400rwhp safely in my opinion.

And really we're talking about 50-100 dollars difference, why would you skimp

[SLEEKA]

sorry mate i disagree. And its not that it wont do the job, it probably would, but theres just no room for error. It only supports 500hp at the crank in turbo applications, thats just not enough to support 400rwhp safely in my opinion.

And really we're talking about 50-100 dollars difference, why would you skimp

its not a matter of skimping, its a matter of choosing the right pump for the right job. Why get 1000cc injectors when the flow of 700cc will do the job?

You dont rate a fuel pump by the maximum "flywheel" horsepower it can support, theres too many variables that affect that. A fuel pump is rated in flow, ie ltr/hr

But we'll work with your theory, a walbro 500hp fuel pump is said to obviously hold up to a na 500hp at the flywheel, now a 040 out does the walbro and that only produces 102 litres/hr, which some rate the 040 as a 600-650hp pump. The 023 which is bigger again is rated to 168 litres/hr, which is afair jump again on the 040, and some places even rate the 023 as a 800hp pump, which as we know is inaccurate. By using a quick google calculator, it says 650hp is supported by a pump that flows to 168litres/hr, so the 023 will do the job.

Its getting tuned on the dyno, so everything will be kept in check, but i dont expect fuel will be an issue

[DCIEVE]

Have to disagree with you there, having changed injectors three times in 12months, and needing to embark on a second revision to the surge set-up in the boot (a major pain in the arse)... I say go conservative first time, then maybe a bit more. Larger injectors in particular wont make a difference to anything (unless you skimped on ecu).

[EVLO]

i made 420hp at all 4 with 2530's on 1.5bar with stock cam'd 26.. as Brockas said they don't make a big difference unless you are going all out..

[kneedtotinkle]

drop in cams are useless... you need an intank 044... save coin for pistons and rods so you can run more boost rather than wasting coin at $2k to take the covers off and put in piss weak drop in sticks. More boost and timing will play a bigger effect on your power level then cams unless you put big ball bags on... I had 2540's with hks pistons rods and hks 264 cams. Was nice until i wanted a T51R which then we had to change to 280's step 2's. Trust me you'll waste money on drop in cams mate. build the whole thing at once rather than waste an extra $5k on taking shit apart gradually over 3 to 4 times.

[DCIEVE]

Cant see how you lose alot of money on drop-ins when you can sell them for the same price you bought them.
poncams made a big difference to mine, mid-range came alive... and whats 1k when your throwing that sort of cash at a car anyway.

[kneedtotinkle]

on a 32 GTR a lot considering you need to rebuild the 15 yr old thing indefinately... everything counts...

[SLEEKA]

i think some people are missing the point, this isnt going to be a hp hungry car, he's chasing something that will put you back in the seat but he's mainly after response since it will be a street driven car (hence the GTSS). Theres no point putting huge cams in it, since the heads not coming off. He just wants something that will bolt in and mainly give mid range gains which the tomie 260's should.

And thats the same reason why he didnt go all out on the fuel system, he's limiting himself to the the gt-ss's, he wont be upgrading again. The stock pistons and rods will be fine it will be tuned conservatively, i would be more worried about the stock oil pump.

I'm no expecting this thing to go bang, 400rwhp is nothing for a rb26, the good old rb25s have been proven to drive around on greater power on stock internals, its all in the tune. After all it is a 14yr old car and if it spins a big end, then we rip the engine out and stick a set of shells in it, easy done.

[SLEEKA]

Have to disagree with you there, having changed injectors three times in 12months, and needing to embark on a second revision to the surge set-up in the boot (a major pain in the arse)... I say go conservative first time, then maybe a bit more. Larger injectors in particular wont make a difference to anything (unless you skimped on ecu).

We havent guessed at the fuel pump/injectors and thought that it should do the job. I've used calculations to see what fuel is needed at his power level and chosen parts that are suitable. I've also looked at many peoples setups on the rb26 to get the power he wants on SAU, and taken note of the parts they've used.

Injectors are 700cc power enterprises and is run by a powerfc djetro

[Brockas]

I'm no expecting this thing to go bang, 400rwhp is nothing for a rb26.


hahahahaha

[SLEEKA]

so you think instant rebuild at 400rwhp?

voting time, what will let go?

i find it funny you think the rb26 can't support the power that rb25s are proven to hold

[Brockas]

I never said anything about "instant rebuild".


I just think it's funny you're expecting an engine thats done 100,000 hard kms (which they all have) to last while pushing double the standard power.


Ask Cerbera about it, his popped with 400 at the treds, as have many others.


besides, it has little to do with the power.

If your RB26 is approaching 100,000kms, budget for a rebuild.

End of story.

[Brockas]

ps.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Report-engine-failure-t46581.html&hl=report+engine+failure

[kneedtotinkle]

do not for one minute believe that you can hold 400 at the tyres with a 15 yr old time bomb. Age plays a huge factor with 26's if it has been given a beating better off starting fresh than testing the limits of boosting it up. I guarantee you that the motor will shit itself with 1.5bar of boost with stock pistons, rods etc. RB25's are NOT 26's. A 26 cops more hard flogging than a 25, the parameters of a 25 are rich in fuel load and low on boost, whereas a 26 takes higher boost and heavier load. I give the motor a maximum of 6 months before it pops. If it aint broke, dont fix it. Meaning dont put shit in which will ultimately need to be overhauled to be replaced and re set up... A clean slate is better than a problematic unknown one.

[SLEEKA]

do not for one minute believe that you can hold 400 at the tyres with a 15 yr old time bomb. Age plays a huge factor with 26's if it has been given a beating better off starting fresh than testing the limits of boosting it up. I guarantee you that the motor will shit itself with 1.5bar of boost with stock pistons, rods etc. RB25's are NOT 26's. A 26 cops more hard flogging than a 25, the parameters of a 25 are rich in fuel load and low on boost, whereas a 26 takes higher boost and heavier load. I give the motor a maximum of 6 months before it pops. If it aint broke, dont fix it. Meaning dont put shit in which will ultimately need to be overhauled to be replaced and re set up... A clean slate is better than a problematic unknown one.

exactly if it aint broke dont fix it. Im not going to strip the engine, smash forged pistons/rods and give it a full rebuild which will result in another 5k worth of parts for a measly 400rwhp, when this motor is perfectly fine. It has done 100k km, who cares if its done a million kms, the compression and leak down test has shown a healthy motor.

I've read that thread on sau a while back, its a good bit of reading. The majority of engine failures for the rb26 are because of oil delivery problems (ie spun big ends) or its been pretty common for the stock turbos to shit themselves and deposit metal peices in the engine making a nice mess. Very few have melted pistons (which is tune related anyway) and i dont remember reading any that threw a rod out the side. Regardless of them having a hard life, these are tough motors even if its going to push out almost double the power it had from factory. Pistons/rods arent going to break from day to day driving, rings and bearings are the only thing that im concerned with an older motor.

So going off the engine failures on SAU, we dont have to worry about a ceramic wheel coming off, and the only thing that i can see happening is possibly a spun big end. It will have a master oil pressure gauge to double check the current pressure but as i mentioned before, if it spins a bigend we will change the bearings and possibly the pump and it will be on its way again.

Thanks for all the replys guys, the more info we get the better :)

[got boost]

as its been stated over and over.. do right the first time if it JUST spins a bearing im sure your crank wont be real flash unless you have super human hearing to pick it up under full noise and being a r32 it has the short oil pump drive so factor in buying a R33 gtr crankshaft. so many people have been through this whole senario and some not just once. your gonna be running it harder with the new cam turbo setup factor possibly droppin a valve guide.. the std oil pumps are know to have the backin plate screws loosin over time..
if i bought another rb26 powered car with kms on it id budget straight up for a rebuild.

[heller44]

400rwhp with gt-ss'.. please keep in touch with how it goes.

To put it into perspective, I made 350rwhp at ~17psi with 2860-5 garrets. This may not sound like a lot, especially when you read about some of the cars on here and sau, but it is enough to put a smile on my face.

[Kye]

I give it 6 weeks.

I had the same situation as this, N1 turbos, 700cc injectors, 044 pump, pfc making 400hp at the wheels. 4 weeks later - 5 cylinders.

As the saying goes, RB26's are hand grenades with the pin pulled... im sure this one is no different.

[Brockas]

exactly if it aint broke dont fix it. Im not going to strip the engine, smash forged pistons/rods and give it a full rebuild which will result in another 5k worth of parts for a measly 400rwhp, when this motor is perfectly fine. It has done 100k km, who cares if its done a million kms, the compression and leak down test has shown a healthy motor.

We're not telling you to build a motor straight away, we're trying to warn you that you NEED to budget for a rebuild sometime in the near future.

It's a case of 'when' not 'if'.



It'll probably succumb to one of the following:
1. Oil Pump Failure (possible rod out the block, spun bearings, etc)
2. Dropped Valve Guide (full build, will more than likely take out everything)
3. Loss of compression (piston ring, head gasket)
4. Split Block

[SimonR32]

so you think instant rebuild at 400rwhp?

voting time, what will let go?

i find it funny you think the rb26 can't support the power that rb25s are proven to hold

we all know nothing, none of us have any idea about rb26's

its a ticking time bomb and will in the not too distant future

-drop a guide
-shit a oil pump
-spin a bearing
-start dropping compression
-split a block

rb26's live a hard life, they dont die from lack of stength, more of age and wear and tear

[DISTRBD]

26 in our 31 died n was making 360hp and was a very low ks engine

[SimonR32]

26 in our 31 died n was making 360hp and was a very low ks engine

you mean it gave up the will to live...

dont worry i would take my own life as well if i was put in a r31 :)

[DISTRBD]

you mean it gave up the will to live...


Just like your x g/fs

[kneedtotinkle]

ahahahha. Seriously you are better off planning to rebuild and skimp on buying cams n shit. save the dollars and put it towards a build up later on. PLus a build up isnt going to cost you $5k if you do pistons rods pump... little more than that. Good luck with it dude as old 26's dont like big power. They are quite old now especially if sitting in a 32 body. Check for rust in the rear quarters as well...

[monga]

For the RB25 to make 500hp+ it is essentially an RB26 after most things are replaced. Also every 26 has been purchased to be driven hard, 25's provide a variety of owners, some who don't belt them all day, thus some are kicking around today might last a few more KM'S.

In regards to the 26 I personally don't know any owner who has not had troubles keeping 400hp~ on a stock motor for a extended period of time.

[WAIT4ME]

First of all, thanks everyone for all your feedback.
My intentions with the car..
Atm Im after a nice responsive street driven car, as much as i love hearing a T51R coming on to boost with the gate wide open, its just not pratical for what im after. I currently have the choice between two daily drivers so this car will only come out every once in a blue moon, and therefore hopefully extending the expected life of the motor to a year plus. I'm a firm believer in spending the time with tuning the car. Ive had my previous car tuned at ALLSTAR garage and cannot fault seans tunes.(i even bought the power enterprise injectors because he dislikes tuning with sards!) If i get a nice healthy tune and keeping in mind the no.5 cylinder not being too lean, (ive heard its a common problem) it should make the power and responsiveness im after.
I chose the cams because of what ive read through sau. It seems to be what the majority of people do to make the mid range difference. So Brocka's your input was taken into consideration.lol.
Regarding the fuel supply, i previously had the 023 in my r33, and was very happy with the no whinning and the flow of fuel. I'm confident that the 023 will supply the fuel i need, but like everyone said, if its too small its only another 200-300 bucks and an hours of my time to upgrade the pump. plus i can sell the pump cheap to one of you guys.
Quite a few people are suggesting to bite the bullet, save for a bit and do it properly, however on a modest 3rd year apprentice wage, i just cant wait that long! But at the same time i'm not going to cheap out on the work that needs to be done.
I went to Ahg on 24/8 and spectated the track series they had going on, Chris who owns the datatel sponsored GTR had very similar mods, to what im putting on(he does have a built motor however) but his stress to me was to keep the oil flowing. So.....
Whats everyone's point of views on oil feeds and tuning?? Keeping in mind my car will only see the track on the odd antilag event, would it be necessary for my car to have the oil filter relocation kit, oil cooler and baffle etc. and who would you swear by with tuning an rb26??
once again cheers for all your feedback!!

[SLEEKA]

as its been stated over and over.. do right the first time if it JUST spins a bearing im sure your crank wont be real flash unless you have super human hearing to pick it up under full noise and being a r32 it has the short oil pump drive so factor in buying a R33 gtr crankshaft. so many people have been through this whole senario and some not just once. your gonna be running it harder with the new cam turbo setup factor possibly droppin a valve guide.. the std oil pumps are know to have the backin plate screws loosin over time..
if i bought another rb26 powered car with kms on it id budget straight up for a rebuild.

his is a 94gtr, i believe it has the wider nose on the crank. Regardless, if anything is going to let it down i still think it will be oil related.

Of course it not going to last forever, but i think it will last longer than the 6 weeks some of you have given it.

Regardless, time will tell, and for WAIT4ME's sake i hope he gets a bit of use out of it before it does let go

[SLEEKA]

we all know nothing, none of us have any idea about rb26's


no need to be a smart ass, i never said anything like that

[Brockas]

Whats everyone's point of views on oil feeds and tuning?? Keeping in mind my car will only see the track on the odd antilag event, would it be necessary for my car to have the oil filter relocation kit, oil cooler and baffle etc. and who would you swear by with tuning an rb26??
once again cheers for all your feedback!!

If you want to do track days at Wanneroo, Collie, or AHG (Long track) with R-comps, you MUST have a sump extension and baffle.

At a minimum, you're going to have to do an oil pump and and head oil feed restrictor at some stage.

Some people also put a drain on the back of the head back into the sump, as RB26's pump a lot of oil into the head at high-rpm.



As for tuning, Sean @ all star or Ant @ x-speed.

[OneJ]

Just chuck unlimited cash at it and the problem will be solved. Stfu n00b!

Get yah bank acount out yah poor pingpingpingping.

[Brockas]

Just chuck unlimited cash at it and the problem will be solved. Stfu n00b!

haha nice sarcasm Stash.

He bought a GT-R.
Not a car to own on a tight budget.

[DISTRBD]

As for tuning, Sean @ all star or Ant @ x-speed.

Andy @ Hyperdrive good also :boink:

[WAIT4ME]

ohh sorry stakka, what did yours run down the 1/4??? 12.9,
yeh thought so... lol
also when is the new edition to the family going to hit perth streets??