Corner Balancing

[bjohnson]

Does anyone know of a workshop in Perth who will do this for me?
I've asked around a few places with no luck.

[turael]

Have you asked WA Suspensions?

[bjohnson]

Have you asked WA Suspensions?

They fitted my coilovers but don't corner balance.
Wilkinsons weren't keen either.

[zeroyon]

I've tried to find the same thing with no luck.

Wilkos were the usual "what do you want to do that for"
IE we dont do it so it must be dumb.

In reading of race books and good magazines corner balancing shows lap time test results of a big difference. When i was in japan some dudes had a set or corner scales out at a club drift day. Pretty keen !

[Lump]

i have had corner weighting done.

i will find his number & post it up.
cheers

[JME]

I had wilko's do it for my 996, they don't have the equipment off hand and had to hire it in for the day. Its a lot of fucking around if you're not setup to do race car work. Try Kerry Wades place in Benltey, Bridgestone Tyre Centre i believe.

[bjohnson]

Wilkos were the usual "what do you want to do that for" IE we dont do it so it must be dumb.


That's the response I got.
Not a race car so they weren't interested.


i have had corner weighting done.

i will find his number & post it up.
cheers


I had wilko's do it for my 996, they don't have the equipment off hand and had to hire it in for the day. Its a lot of fucking around if you're not setup to do race car work. Try Kerry Wades place in Benltey, Bridgestone Tyre Centre i believe.

Cheers guys.
I'll give Kerrry Wade a call.

[Nemi]

go gear has the scales you can hire them from there if you want to diy.

[bjohnson]

Ahh cool.

If you asked me a month ago I would have been keen to DIY but the ride height of that car has been my all consuming obsession for weeks (If I never have to see another C spanner or ruler I'll die a happy man!)

I've spoken to Kerry and he's going to do it.

Antilag delivers, GREAT SUCCESS!

[Joe]

I was going to suggest Wheels World... if Kerry Wade didn't do it, they surely would have.

BUT, all good :)

[Nemi]

Can you PM me the cost of the service ?

[Lump]

i havent used kerry for this (but im sure he's good).
the guy i use has his own scales but is not really keen for more work, sorry.
nemi, it can take a couple of hours depending on car/coilovers etc so might have to budget a couple of hundred.
i wouldnt have a car on coilies or adjustable suspension without having it done

[EL BURITO]

Ben how high do you have it sitting now, in Comparison to the Eibchs ?

[dattoman]

Ahh cool.

If you asked me a month ago I would have been keen to DIY but the ride height of that car has been my all consuming obsession for weeks (If I never have to see another C spanner or ruler I'll die a happy man!)

I've spoken to Kerry and he's going to do it.

Antilag delivers, GREAT SUCCESS!

You know your static ride height will change if your getting it corner weighted and set up ?
Since they have to weight jack to balance the "feel" of the car and your car might end up sitting not so square depending on where the weight needs to be moved to and from
When my racecar was done... it never sat flat to look at
But it sure went round corners OK
Front left and right were about 18mm different heights
And since the car was actually rear heavy due to the mid mount motor the back wasn't level to the front
So if making it look the same all round is important to you
Forget corner weighting

[bjohnson]

...

Yeah I know it's going to be way off.
I don't mind so long as it's for a reason.
I've got a feeling there is going to be a fair bit of difference in it too.


Ben how high do you have it sitting now, in Comparison to the Eibchs ?

Stupidly I forgot to measure when I had them fitted.

The gap between the top of the rim and the arch is 80mm all around.

I'm using a bigger tyre (215/40 ventus rs2) so I can't go much lower without rubbing the arch lining.

[JME]

WHS^^^^ the porka looked a bit off left to right BUT it was about as neutral as I could get it handling wise.

[mys1]

Hrmmm, found this and its basic principals, pretty easy to read article compared to some others I found.

Makes giving it a go your self seem like a good idea!


Of the short list of things I want to get done before my first track day, the thing I really want to make sure I get done is a good corner-balancing of the car.

"What's corner-balancing?," you say? Glad you asked, because it's kind of cool and absolutely helps your car handle better.

Here's how to do it:

A corner-balancing primer

Corner-balancing, in simple terms, is adjusting the car so there's an equal amount of weight on all four tires. In real life, of course, it's not quite that simple, but I'll get to that in a minute.

To do it, you need four scales (one for each tire--there are scales made specifically for this. Look for a racing shop near you and see if you can rent a set for an hour or two) and some way to adjust your suspension. Ah. That's the tricky bit. There are several ways:

1. Coil-overs. A lot of the performance-modified cars these days include adjustable coil-over suspensions. Unfortunately, very few vehicles come from the factory that way. If you're not driving a Lotus Elise or Porsche GT3, chances are your car didn't come stock with them. Mine, for instance, are aftermarket.

These are the easiest to adjust since there is a threaded collar on the outside of the shock absorber housing which holds the lower spring perch for each corner of the vehicle. Turn the spring perch and it raises or lowers the suspension.

Coil-overs make corner-balancing really easy.

2. Torsion-bar adjusters. Early Porsches used torsion-bars instead of coil springs. I won't go into the technology here but the front torsion bars had little adjusters you could turn to change the ride height of the front of the car. You could change it at the back, too, though that was a little bit more work (but not a lot). If you need more information, write me.

3. Spacers. Ugh. If you don't have an adjustable suspension, it's technically possible to adjust the ride height by inserting spacers beneath the coil springs. However, without a great (which is to say powered) spring compressor, this is such slow and miserable work that you'll want to ignore it altogether.

OK, so. One way or another you've got a way adjust your suspension height. I'm not talking big adjustments (hopefully), but if you can't adjust it, you can't corner-balance. Sorry. The first thing to do is get your car on the scales, preferably in the mode you expect be driving it which is to say with you behind the wheel and probably half a tank of gas.

Get a friend to read the weights on all the scales and write them down so you know which weight is where. You should end up with something like this:

Left Right
Front 575 605
Rear 750 632

Now, the trick here is to figure out what the weights should be. Ideally, every tire would carry the same amount of weight ((575 + 605 + 750 + 632)/4 = 640.5), but that's not possible so you have to figure out the best that is possible. Here's how:

First, add up the two front tires' weights to get the weight of the front of the car (575 + 605 = 1,180 lbs in my example). Next, do the same thing for the rear (1,382), the left side (1,325) and the right side (1,237).

The thing to understand here is that whatever weights you come up with for each of these calculations (for your car), those are the numbers. Unless you start moving parts around inside the vehicle (like, for instance, moving the battery to the trunk), the relative numbers won't change, regardless of what adjustments you make to the suspension.

Ah, but there's a loophole:

You can't change the total weight on the front or left or right or rear, but the distribution of weight between the two tires that comprise each of those measurements can be changed. That's what we're here to do.

Next, figure out what percentage each side of the car's weight is of the entire vehicle's weight. In my example, the left side is 1,325 / 2,562 = 51.72%; the right side comes out to 48.28%.

Almost there. Now, if the front of the car weighs 1,180 lbs and the left side is 51.72% of the car's weight, the front left tire's share of the car's weight should be 1,180 x .5172 = 610.3 lbs. Using the same logic, compute the values for the three other tires and you should come up with this:

Left Right
Front 610 570
Rear 715 667

Comparing this to the actual figures you find the weights need adjusted as follows:

Left Right
Front +35 -35
Rear -35 +35

It's coincidental that the same numbers are at both ends of the car in this example (you won't always see this) but the diagonal arrangement of the pluses and minuses is ALWAYS there. That's how it works. If there's too much weight in one corner there's also too much weight in the opposite corner. In fact, that's the whole basis of corner-balancing.

Think of it like this: If you put a jack under the right rear tire of your car and lifted it high enough, eventually all of the weight of the car would be distributed between the right rear and front left tires as the other two tires would be off the ground. As you started letting the car down and the other two tires started to touch the ground, some of the weight of the car would start to be transferred onto them until, eventually, you were all the way to the ground and the weight was more or less evenly distributed.

At a much more subtle level, you can do pretty much the same thing by adjusting the ride height at one or more corners of the car. For instance, lowering the right rear corner of the car a touch will make it AND the opposite corner (the front left) press on the ground a little less. As they press a little less, the other two tires (back left and front right) will have to pick up the slack because, after all, the car still weighs the same amount and all of that weight has to be supported. So, by lowering the right rear you simultaneously reduce the weight on the right rear and front left while increasing the weight on the opposite two corners.

With a few go-arounds of adjusting and weighing, you can dial in the balance until each tire is carrying its appropriate amount of weight. Unless you have weird ride-height issues (or a bent frame), or started out grossly out of adjustment, you can usually get the car balanced by adjusting just one of the corners, but sometimes you have to do two.

While it may seem like a lot of trouble (heck, if your suspension isn't adjustable it IS a lot of trouble), there's a payoff in improved handling both at the track and on the road. Give it a try (if you can).

Source http://www.scottgood.com/jsg/blog.nsf/d6plinks/SGOD-6B9PFW

[Tocchi]

i havent used kerry for this (but im sure he's good).
the guy i use has his own scales but is not really keen for more work, sorry.
nemi, it can take a couple of hours depending on car/coilovers etc so might have to budget a couple of hundred.
i wouldnt have a car on coilies or adjustable suspension without having it done

a couple of hundred dollars for a better handling car on the track (thus better times) is well worth it, cheaper than 1 R-comp tyre

[Nemi]

Kerry is a fucking champ by the way, he opened up on a friday night at 9pm to align a targa car after it had a slight off and had to be repaired.

Serious respect for someone who will go out of his way like that to look after a racer.

[Lump]

agreed, will be takin cressie to him asap

[Marti]

where abouts is this guy located and whats his contact number ?

[bjohnson]

Kerry Wade

Bridgestone Tyre Centre Bentley
21 Sevenoaks St,
Bentley WA 6102
Phone : (08) 9458 4586
Fax : (08) 9451 7664
Email : tyreways@westnet.com.au

[Fryman]

corner balancing and alignment is paramount to a race car! also brake bias as well... see richards rx7...

[mr_rotary]

If I remember correctly, you can hire the scales from Go-Gear.

[Tocchi]

OMG somebody has used the search function ;D


on the topic of corner balancing... im trying to get my car as setup for track as possible for a street car.
now, for when you have your car corner balanced you want it exactly how your car will race, ie: tyres rims, everything un-needed out of car, helmet, racesuit (if you wear one) etc.

1. of course the balance of the car will change once fuel load changes, so im guessing i should set my optimal balance for when i got a full tank - as even though i have more fuel, the tyres and brakes are at their best. ?

2. I've got adjustable swaybars, at the moment, they are on the most aggressive setting. is it possible to work out what's the best setting via corner balancing? or is it more a case of getting the car corner balanced, chuck a set of grippy tyres on the car, and see how it handles etc, then make changes?

[Lump]

not sure what you mean by 1., but just have 1/2 a tank of fuel or whatever you intent to run on the track - either way its not going to matter much when corner weighting a car.

with point 2. you answered your own question (you tune the bars by how the car drives after corner balancing)
cheers

[Tocchi]

1. my fuel tank is on the left hand side of car, under back seat.
so i was just thinking once i use fuel around a track, the left side will become lighter.. maybe im looking too much into this aspect.

2. thought so. thanks :)

[thommo]

wouldnt you also have to take into it the drivers weight, if your getting technical...

if this was to be your weights with driver be a massive difference

LF 650 RF 720

LR 650 RR 650

[Lump]

yes should be done with driver in the car, kitted up etc