Histall question.

[Drift_R32]

Hey hoping to get a histall for my vz ss ute so it's ready for when cam going in. It runs 3.9s ATM but I'm hoping there's an off the shelf convertor I can get around 3600 to 4000 to suit the transmission. Also the autos in the vz ss are they any good? As in will a decent stall kill it quick? and also will car need to tuned to suit the stall or can it be dropped in with current Maff tune?



Cheers

[31-EVO]

460LE = time bomb/grenade/Simons Rb25

Probably a good idea to get a tune once it is in, or just do it when the cam is done, both at the same time.

Seems like a fairly high stall ( no pun ) is it not ?

[Yakky Bear]

I run a 4000 in mine but its jap/turbo application

[Brett_J]

Shit boxes, my brothers blew at 25,000kms, that was from fuck all thrashing as well.
Get a shift kit, big trans cooler and service the box regularly and it should keep it alive a bit longer.

[Drift_R32]

Has a shift kit already well an electronic one not a physical one. When the tune was done. Definately will be putting in a large ass transmission cooler. Does anyone know how hard it is to drop in t400? As far as I know u need a manual computer besides that no idea.

[R8 ute]

Th400 are a pretty much straight swap, plenty of people are using them with the lsxs. You will need a new shifter of course.

Highstalls are pretty common in the 3500, 3800 and 4100 sizes but you can basicaly get what ever you want. Simon at allfast did my converter probaly one of the better guys in perth to go through.

Go with the biggest transcooler you can fit with the stock box, but will probaly die anyway. If you plan on doing alot of drag racing then the th400 is a good option but not the greatest for street cars.

[Tre-Cool]

same computer. different calibration.

t400 = gay for the street. drive your car around in 3rd gear and see how u like it, coz that's what it will be like.

[booster]

It should cope with a trans cooler and a good retune if you're keeping under 320rwkw Look up D-circle converters or TCE. Both work great with 4L60e and stay away from Dominator's

[Drift_R32]

So t400 is a straight swap? Oh I don't care if it's a pig to drive it's not my daily. So t400 with a pro rachet should be ok? Will I need a retune with the t400?

[stumps.]

I had a "YANK" 3600 rpm histall in my old vx ss with a large cooler and nothing ever broke.

You will need a retune because it will stall going through roundabouts and shit which is not fun with no power steering.

[H1GHROLLR]

T400 on the street and daily duties is about as gay as sir elton john him self ! t400's in late model commodores is not the right thing to do really , its the lazy less exspensive way , get someone whos knows how to build a 4l60e and get a trans tune , as for the stall just wack it in HUGE trans cooler and tune and drive the ass of it , box will die with out a doubt but how long is the question , my brand new stock 4l60e last 4 days in my ss with barely and hard driving , torque kills them .

[mattyj]

4l80e :)

[SLY346]

as a ls1 owner with a 4L60E gearbox ive got to admit throwing in a t56 with a textralia clutch almost seems the better option than rebuilding the 4 speed with a histall converter :P

I suppose its apples and oranges really, some will argue the built auto is the way to go, for me i think i might go for the 6 speed cog swapper if my auto dies in the ass

[KPWISHN]

VZ's have 4L65E's anyway and they are better than 4L60E's. Main thing is to keep it cool. Same goes for all auto's.

[AGIT8D]

What the fuck is the latest craze to run TH400's in street cars? Stupid fucking wank factor if you ask me. Hey let's see how undriveable and miserable we can make the car...

You are better off talking to Craigs Auto's if you want a 4 speed box with reliability. TH400 with 3.9's will be good for um... The motorplex. That is all. It will be bad for.. Your tyres.

My understanding is you will be turfing the auto PCM as well as you can't use it with a manualised auto box? But maybe you can just disengage the auto box control of the PCM, I'm not sure.

[H1GHROLLR]

What the fuck is the latest craze to run TH400's in street cars? Stupid fucking wank factor if you ask me. Hey let's see how undriveable and miserable we can make the car...

You are better off talking to Craigs Auto's if you want a 4 speed box with reliability. TH400 with 3.9's will be good for um... The motorplex. That is all. It will be bad for.. Your tyres.

My understanding is you will be turfing the auto PCM as well as you can't use it with a manualised auto box? But maybe you can just disengage the auto box control of the PCM, I'm not sure.

BINGO ! craigs autos built 4L65 or like my new box :) Als race glides built 4l65e with unconditional warrenty for use in cars with up to 600rwhp but you pay the $$$ , which i would prefer then driving around with a huge stalled 3 speed hydraulic box from the 70's . . . not to mention u will need a new convertor, tail shaft , gearbox mount, shifter etc etc then you still have no engine braking 3 gears no reverse lights no speedo unless u spend some more coin !

[AGIT8D]

As mentioned the only way to get around it would be to go for a 4L80E which is essentially a TH400 with a factory overdrive.. But you'll likely run into a lot of the same problems as mentioned in the post above! And a 6L80E is too much fucky around.

[H1GHROLLR]

4l80e alone is like 5k i think ! then you need a new wiring harness which i think are pricey on the own and there good for around 600fwhp if you get a decent 4l60/5e built and your gearbox builder works with you tuner there is a good chance you will be ok pretty hard to tune a box you know nothing about ?

[AGIT8D]

I'd only get a 4L80E as a fully manualised option, leave my existing tune and PCM in the car (if it were me getting an auto box). Import that shiz straight from the States, or alternatively, talk to Craig about getting one as he does them as well.

But that's another box for another day, just a more streetable alternative to a TH400. If you want electronic shifting then yeah a tough 4L60/5E is the go.

[SimonR32]

460LE = time bomb/grenade/Simons Rb25

Probably a good idea to get a tune once it is in, or just do it when the cam is done, both at the same time.

Seems like a fairly high stall ( no pun ) is it not ?

Was that in reference to my motor? lol

[SLY346]

a couple of q's (sorry for hijack)
how much would you be looking at to rebuild a 4L65E to handle head/cam sort of power?? 2500-3000 is a fair budget yeah?
would it be worthwhile putting in one of those transgo stage 2 shift kits too? what about billet/corvette servos?

[stumps.]

Shift kits are a waste of cash in my opinion. The shift rates can be altered in the tune.

The v8 version already has corvette servos.

I presume you are looking on ebay....

[stumps.]

If yours is broken, do it right and do it once. Ask many guys on here and ls1 who have had autos built then break and repeat, repeat. If yours is broken and you are considering some decent power ring Craig over east and send it over there. He may even recommened someone locally.

[AGIT8D]

Craig will do a replacement box service for you.. From memory the only difference between 60/65 is the input shaft. And 65 shafts fit 60's I think?

I would not expect change from $3-3.5k if I was getting a box properly built and supplying my own. Then you will have touch up tune fees to get it kicking hard into gears :D

One of the most common failures for the late model boxes is incorrect line pressure. Ensure this is correct and you should be able to do care-free burnouts.

http://www.craigsautos.com.au/

[Tre-Cool]

my old man spent over 4k on a 4l60. it still burnt out the 3-4 clutch pack after about 6 events at the drags. Mind you this was in a full weight ute with hardlid, intercooled t51r single turbo.

it was making 500rwhp on 8psi through the stall.

weight & power\torque is what kills them. light car = better longevity.

he had it freshened up before taking the tranny out and selling the car to my uncle (minus the turbo kit) as he is building a drag vt with a turbo 400.

If anyone is looking for a ready to go "built" 4l60 then hit me up.

[SLY346]

Shift kits are a waste of cash in my opinion. The shift rates can be altered in the tune.

The v8 version already has corvette servos.

I presume you are looking on ebay....

Nah not looking on ebay, was actually told by someone that the transgo/b&m shift kits will actually make the shifts way harder/quicker than changing the shift rates in the tune. I've also heard the billet servos are better than corvette servos but its sounding more and more like it will just reduce the longevity of the gearbox especially without a trans cooler.

[mattyj]

i had a 402ci vt with 3800 highstall and had 3 4l60's in a period of about 5 months. i wasn't making massive hp but the combintion of the stally and the big low/mid torque just killed it (first one was built by craigs, then twice by stoney)

my advice, keep the stock conveter if you want the box to live (although this will show just how bad these big 'cam only' 5.7s are to drive.......)

[AGIT8D]

its sounding more and more like it will just reduce the longevity of the gearbox especially without a trans cooler.

As Lewis said, the first thing you should consider with almost any auto is a tranny cooler. They are cheap, and good insurance against failure. Auto boxes get hot, solve this issue before you even think about tinkering with one.

I have trouble believing a Craig's box got munched by a 402, but I guess if the box was built to basic specs and not to handle the thump of a 402 then it probably wouldn't have stood a chance.

As for having the box built here twice afterwards, I had some lulz :D

[Drift_R32]

Well plan is suppose for now is a massive cooler then go from there. T400 if reliable is still the plan. No point messing around with the stocker boxes sounds like. Like I said I font really care if it's Abit of a pig to drive on the street as it's not my daily just a fun car only for thrashing basically

[Tre-Cool]

As Lewis said, the first thing you should consider with almost any auto is a tranny cooler. They are cheap, and good insurance against failure. Auto boxes get hot, solve this issue before you even think about tinkering with one.

I have trouble believing a Craig's box got munched by a 402, but I guess if the box was built to basic specs and not to handle the thump of a 402 then it probably wouldn't have stood a chance.

As for having the box built here twice afterwards, I had some lulz :D
the 402 that destroyed the box's is the 402 in my drag car... (now with different heads)

[AGIT8D]

I know how tough 6L based strokers can be, I have one as well, but Craig builds equally as tough boxes.. As far as I can tell, it would munch the box based on the box being cheaped out on, or not correct for the engine. Or maybe it was a freak shit box :)

T400 is fine for beating up on if that's all you want to do with it but where exactly do you plan on doing all this beating up on the car?? With 3.9 gears and a T400 you'll be getting emo real quick doing 100km/h+. Which rules out driving it to any events like track days etc. Unless you have a trailer.. In which case there isn't much point having a registered street car at all.

Doing a skid with a T400 equipped car then trying to run from cops would be mission impossible.. They'd put their windows down and hear you wherever you went :D

[KPWISHN]

Dan, You need a teaspoon of cement. :)

[SSICK]

If anyone is looking for a ready to go "built" 4l60 then hit me up.

what about the turbo kit???

[AGIT8D]

Dan, You need a teaspoon of cement. :)

Looking forward to going for a drive in your car with the T400 before you realise it's completely unstreetable or get a yellow pulling out of your driveway :D

[DanWA]

so much hate on t400's

[Drift_R32]

Looking forward to going for a drive in your car with the T400 before you realise it's completely unstreetable or get a yellow pulling out of your driveway :D

Lol At the end of the day I'm building a cammed v8 with huge stall. I'm not expecting it to drive like the latest golf polo. I'd like to drag it Abit as it's an auto commodore not a gtr. So I think t400 is still the plan.

[AGIT8D]

so much hate on t400's

Turbo 400's are a great box, one of the better ones out there. But every box has it's place to shine. In a street car with 3.9 gears probably isn't it.

[Turbo2.6L]

What the fuck is the latest craze to run TH400's in street cars? Stupid fucking wank factor if you ask me. Hey let's see how undriveable and miserable we can make the car...

You are better off talking to Craigs Auto's if you want a 4 speed box with reliability. TH400 with 3.9's will be good for um... The motorplex. That is all. It will be bad for.. Your tyres.

My understanding is you will be turfing the auto PCM as well as you can't use it with a manualised auto box? But maybe you can just disengage the auto box control of the PCM, I'm not sure.


I know how tough 6L based strokers can be, I have one as well, but Craig builds equally as tough boxes.. As far as I can tell, it would munch the box based on the box being cheaped out on, or not correct for the engine. Or maybe it was a freak shit box :)

T400 is fine for beating up on if that's all you want to do with it but where exactly do you plan on doing all this beating up on the car?? With 3.9 gears and a T400 you'll be getting emo real quick doing 100km/h+. Which rules out driving it to any events like track days etc. Unless you have a trailer.. In which case there isn't much point having a registered street car at all.

Doing a skid with a T400 equipped car then trying to run from cops would be mission impossible.. They'd put their windows down and hear you wherever you went :D

TH400 in my VX is fine to drive at 100kms & gets driven to drags/workshop on a weekly basis.
Granted, it wouldn't be comfortable to drive into the city for work every day but the OP is not after that. He is after something reliable that he can beat up on at the strip & on the street... 4L60E wont cut it. May be good for 6 or 12 months, but who wants to pull a box out once/twice a year to have it freshened up??
As already stated, heat is what kills auto boxes. Be it from huge torque/power increases over stock figures, big converters or just beating up on them. A tranny cooler is a must on any auto equipped car that gets driven hard, including a commodore with a TH400.

[Tre-Cool]

when i had the t400 in my ute. even with 3.7 gears. driving it above 90kph was not fun if you were puttin along. i think it was like 3000rpm at 100kph. something silly anyway.

mind you it had a 6000 stall in it, so not exactly fuel economy friendly.

in a straight line and with your foot going into it was fun though. if you could control the wheelspin :) and keep it pointing in a straight line.

commodores tend to have a habit of steering to the right, as the arse goes left.

[Turbo2.6L]

Mine tracks pretty straight. Your's must of been a re-birthed crash vehicle from Victoria or something?? :p

[AGIT8D]

I still believe Craig would build a 4L60/5 more than capable of taking abuse from an LS1.

I still believe a TH400 for any street duties is an annoyance and a scream for attention from the po-po.

As for Commodores going sideways with wheel spin, my Kaaz solved that problem.

[H1GHROLLR]

I will be test pig for a "proper built" 4l65e as of next week so i guess we will see how long it lasts , will be using a very very small stall with big trans cooler but a tad over 500rwhp and 1800ft/lb of torque lets see if a so called "PROPER" 60/65e will take the pain and last i guess other wise its going to have to be 6 speed or a 700r maybe even t400 with gear vendor o/d :/

[AGIT8D]

I will be test pig for a "proper built" 4l65e as of next week so i guess we will see how long it lasts , will be using a very very small stall with big trans cooler but a tad over 500rwhp and 1800ft/lb of torque lets see if a so called "PROPER" 60/65e will take the pain and last i guess other wise its going to have to be 6 speed or a 700r maybe even t400 with gear vendor o/d :/

NOW I KNOW HOW MUCH POWER YOU MAKE!!!!!!!!! ;)

4L80E is considerably cheaper than a T400 with a GVOD. That would be my suggestion, talk to Craig and see what he thinks. I've got a couple of links somewhere for importing one as well.

[H1GHROLLR]

^^^ oh no ! was ment to be secret power figure ! and torque figure ! although twin turbo 5.7L is still going to be classed as gay causes its not exactly a built rb series engine or bombed sr :) and its just another gayyy commodore. . .

[stumps.]

This thread is aids. Put another pedal in the car and drive it like a man.

[Drift_R32]

So in conclusion.. T400 is still the plan. Anyone know exactly what needs doing to install on though? Ie custom tailshaft, manual PCM?

[DanWA]

TCI Flexplate/arp bolts (Ebay, Summit, CMP etc)
Converter suit LSX with TCI Flexplate (Dominator, TCE, Allfast etc)
Tailshaft/Yokes (Final Drive)
Manual PCM/Tune
Speedo Drive with converter box to electronic output
Reverse Lights
Shifter (just get a b&m)
Console Mods
T400 Dust Cover
T400 flexible dipstick tube
Transmission cooler (a must - get the b&m hi-tek fanned version)
Crossmember/mounts
Extractors?

DTM Also came highly recommended to me, so you might want to ring him for a chat about a box. For example mine was $3200. Fully manualised with a big list of shit i dunno what its for. Rated to 1000hp.

You could also let the gearbox place know its for a LSX and they can drill the extra 2 holes for you in the casing. I didn't do this, heard few stories of cracking etc.

Probably some stuff i missed :)

[AGIT8D]

So in conclusion.. T400 is still the plan. Anyone know exactly what needs doing to install on though? Ie custom tailshaft, manual PCM?

Bigger fuel tank :D

[H1GHROLLR]

So in conclusion.. T400 is still the plan. Anyone know exactly what needs doing to install on though? Ie custom tailshaft, manual PCM?

2.02:1 gears or similar ? :)

[AGIT8D]

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=149423

Craigs automatics built TH400 1500hp rated
Spragless,reverse manual pattern shift
Transbrake
cross member modified to bolt straight into VT-VZ
bell housing modified to allow extra bolt to suit ls1 engine
Griner extreme pro tree valve body p/n 34G20
3300rpm dominator converter
B&M pro ratchet shifter
Trans cooler with fan & oil lines
deep B&M pan
Lokar dipstick
speedo sender conversion
Strange billet yoke
TCI flexplate
ARP converter bolts
Done less than 3000kms
No longer needed
$5000

0400 114 120
Ipswich,QLD

http://i56.tinypic.com/11l7w9v.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/2dm8rrs.jpg

[H1GHROLLR]

Transbrake in a standard irs equipped commodore virtual pointless or just get ready to tear the mounts out of the floor , standard rear end will absorb the lot then try to end its own life i thinks ?

[Drift_R32]

That's not bad 5k plus shipping. Prob try see if my brother can help me out. He work for Capricorn and has staff account with purple pages.

[AGIT8D]

Transbrake in a standard irs equipped commodore virtual pointless or just get ready to tear the mounts out of the floor , standard rear end will absorb the lot then try to end its own life i thinks ?

Depends on the tyres I guess.. If it's a street hack it'll just blow the tyres off hahaha. Drags is another thing entirely, will need Gforce1320 gear to take a transbrake launch on sticky slicks.

$5k for that setup is not too bad man, I wouldn't think the box will need much maintenance, a freshen up every now and then if you're going to compete in a season of racing, otherwise slap it in and go for it

[AGIT8D]

Btw, people have posted here before that it was $30 or so to get e-go to freight a box on a pallet.. So get it palleted here, wrapped and e-go'd if it's too expensive otherwise.