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ForgedV6
22-08-2011, 09:51 PM
Iíve just read the thread on ďWhatís the 4WD for meĒ and picked up some valuable information. This is going to be fairly long winded and thank you anyone that reads it.

Iím fairly knowledgeable on my cars but anything diesel Iím lost, to be honest, anything 4x4 Iím lost. I posted a thread a little while ago for peoples thoughts on a newish Commodore as a daily but lately Iíve been thinking about a 4x4.

The Datsun is/was the daily until recently acquiring a work vehicle, unfortunately the work vehicle is only for travel to and from the office and throughout the working day. The Calais is mostly a toy now and the Datsun is still great to run around in on the weekends or after work (duel fuel). Ideally I need a car that I can use daily (If I lose the work vehicle) and go away long distance for the weekend.

Iím a keen shore based fisherman and would like to get into camping and possibly get a small boat later on so I thought a 4x4 might be a great idea. Hence why I have jumped on board Perth4x4 to hopefully obtain information from everyoneís experiences and learn the relevant things to look for in a 4x4 and once purchased the doís and dontís. Unfortunately its not as heavily populated and my posts go unanswered a fair bit.

Over the week end I did some looking around and thinking about what I want. There are however a few things Iím still unsure of so I will write them below. Feel free to advise if I have placed the following in the wrong section.

4x4's Iím interested in.

- Limitations & information
Diesel
Auto or Manual
< $20,000 or very close
< 200,000kms or very close
Presents well
Can be used daily yet fun off road
Mods will be to benefit camping, fishing, long distance travel and would like a canvas canopy with a sleeping setup in the back. (Me and the Mrs)
No family or kids (touchwood)
Beach and minor off-road ability, no plans to tackle offloading seriously but the urge will possibly bite.
MUST BE QUICKER THAN DATSUN!

What Iíve been looking at.

- Sixth generation Toyota Hilux's
Extra cab or dual cab, if dual cab preferably an SR5
Turbo diesel 3.0L engine
Canít sleep in the back of the dual cab but I really like the look of these.

- Seventh generation Toyota Hilux's
Price is a big factor here so the extra cab tray back and cab chassis tray back is what Iím interested in.
Turbo diesel 3.0L engine
Donít like the look of these Hilux's with the style side rear, prefer tray back and will most likely run a canvas canopy and prepare it for sleeping in.

- Navara D40 only
Extra cab tray back is all Iíve seen, I think these have a 2.5L TD engine?? Donít have as much info as I would like on these.

- Patrol
Cab chassis with 4.2L. Donít have as much info as I would like on these.


- Landcruiser 80 series cab chassis or troopcarrier
Pretty much no hope of finding either of these within my limitations but Iím looking. Either 4.2L D or 4.2L TD (dreaming) but still looking.

- Holden Rodeo
I found a decent 3.0L TD cab chassis version and I really like it.
It doesnít however have the additional gear stick for low/high range. Is this a bad thing??

- Ford & Mazda
Sorry canít own either

- Mitsubishi Triton
The older shape in the GLX form, havenít looked into these yet but I like the shape and looks. In the newer shape, not keen.

- Izuzu D-Max
Keen for the space cab with the tray back. 2.1m tray would be ideal length for sleeping whereas the other makes are slightly shorter i think. Space cab can also seat 4 which is a bonus but not a necessity. Again, no gear stick for high/low range and ive been told the selector computer for this (also in the Rodeo) can be costly ($500)

At this stage I may get the house purchase out of the way and take a small personally loan to increase my purchase price and therefore open the 4x4 range I can comfortable purchase.

However at this stage this is what Iím looking for. Am I on the right track?

Also, I havenít looked into suspension yet. Need someone to tell me what is most desirable for my use. IFS/Springs blah blah, let me know what you think.

If there are common reliability issues with any of the above, please also let me know.

The thread with all the 4x4 travel photos across WA is something I would like to do. Would the above selections perform in this regard with a few mods?

Thanks for taking the time to read.

SLIPPERY
22-08-2011, 10:09 PM
see PM mate

KAL SPL
22-08-2011, 10:12 PM
Navaras are shit , dont even look at them.

Cant really go wrong with current hilux.

ForgedV6
22-08-2011, 10:19 PM
Navaras are shit , dont even look at them.

Cant really go wrong with current hilux.

Thanks Daz, they are however extremely popular. Tonnes of them on the road around the burbs.

ForgedV6
22-08-2011, 10:20 PM
see PM mate

Replied :)

eScoRt20
22-08-2011, 10:22 PM
the D-Max/Colorado/Rodeo use electric transfer case selectors. pretty much the same as a stick, but only buttons.

Specko
22-08-2011, 10:36 PM
Hey mate good to hear your getting a 4wd,once you have one you will love it :) First off i wouldnt be getting a newer hilux e.g 2004 and newer,i think there just way over priced when you can get a navara,Bt50/ranger and other dualcabs for a lot less.That money can be spent on mods because you will get hooked on modding it haha. As for transmission depends what/where your driving it i prefer manual (more reliable). Most dualcabs have lower 1 and 2nd gears (Manual)because there made to tow and carry heavy loads. It does get annoying driving it around the city but when your in the bush its awesome. Also do you want a wagon? or a dual cab mate? I have a dualcab and it really is so usefull to have 5 seats plus the ute tray. Having said that you wont fit 3 adults in the back because theres not much leg room. Pretty much all dualcab models from the major brands have Idependent Front Suspension and at the rear have leaf springs. Ride is alright but aftermarket suspension makes it even better while being able to lift the height too. The other 2 models you have in the list the Patrol ute and Landcruiser 80/troopy have live axle suspension the patrol ute comes in a coil cab which is coil springs and shocks all round or even coils at the front and leafs at the rear or leafs all round (i think GQ0 ute's could only get leafs all round.) The 80 series will have live axle suspension (coils all round) while the older troopys have leafs all round but the newer 78/79b series versions have coil springs up front and leafs at the rear. All of the above could travel around australia etc if you have the right mods etc. If your not going to do hardcore 4wding then Ifs will be fine if setup right can go most 95% of places anyway. Wheres Live axle suspension is easyer to modify for harder 4wding and has better flex/wheel travel comparied to IFS, with regards to the reliability issues mate just get the 4wd you like checked before you buy it E.g take it to a 4wd place and get them to check it out. And look after it and it will look after you is pretty much my saying :) How come you cant own a Ford/Mazda mate? But just go out to car yards etc and drive the models your intrested in that will help you make up your mind. And look on the net like 4wd action forum. Even go talk to guys at a 4wd shop. Hope this info helps a bit. This is just my opinion,if i got anything wrong guys just say so.

ForgedV6
22-08-2011, 11:08 PM
the D-Max/Colorado/Rodeo use electric transfer case selectors. pretty much the same as a stick, but only buttons.

Ive heard/read this is potentially a common problem. With a 4WD check light appearing causing an issue with the controller and replacement is approx $500.

Specko,

Thanks heaps for the reply, ill try an cover everything in your reply.

I only like the sixth generation Hilux and the previous model Triton in the dual cabs for their looks and could therefore live without sleeping in the tray. The seventh gen Hilux style side or well body in my opinion doesn't look as nice. The seventh gen Hilux space cab looks like it has a shorter tray back (unknown size) therefore the cab chassis tray back is on the cards if i find one at the right price.

All other dual cabs have trays that are too short and i wouldn't be able to set it up for sleeping and the looks don't outweigh this.

Manual transmission being more reliable is good to know. Google search brings up a lot of pro's towards an automatic for 4x4 duties especially for those wanting to get serious. I however dont mind but would go for greater reliability.

Generally, how do tray backs perform offroad? Does the light rear end reduce offroad performance?

I would consider a wagon such as Troopcarrier, Cruiser or Patrol but they are fairly heavy and i dont think they would be ideal for the daily commute.

Suspension mods is something i would definitely do, so really i could survive with either suspension design. Thats good to know.

I just dont really like the Ford or Mazda 4x4's.

Having a chat to a 4x4 shop is something ill do but i would prefer to be a little bit educated on the subject otherwise i wouldn't understand his reply.

Ill also jump on 4WD Action and post the same thread.

Thanks again.

Passage GT
23-08-2011, 09:07 AM
these threads are always hard, everyone has their biased opinions (no matter how fair they attempt to sound) and in the end it comes down to you having a look at each option personally and test driving them.
i'd have to say half the cars on your list are beyond your 20k price range unless they've done a lot more km's than your after or they're ex mining/fleet cars, which you want to avoid.
hilux's are hugely popular and toyota has taken full advantage of it by charging like a wounded bull for them, they ask a big premium over the other cars and you can't justify it, they're simply not better than their rivals anymore.
having test driven all the current dual cabs as well as spending a fair bit of time in the old man's triton and working in a hilux near everyday, personally i think the d40, current triton and amarok are simply better cars, hilux was built on build quality but they're simply not a swell made now, go give a gentle push on a quarter panel when you check out a current shape one...

basically if you want decent road manners and fuel economy for daily spec, dual cab utes are probably the best bet, or even a smaller 4x4 like a diesel grand vitara etc.
they're all pretty good on sand too, light with plenty of grunt.
if you want the best in toughness and reliability get a 4.2 gu, in that price range they'll be pushing 300,000km and be a leaf sprung rear but they're the best and toughest there is, the td42 has been proven to be massively durable and respond well to mods too.
around town they'll be thirstier than a smaller dual cab and not as comfortable to drive but for fishing, camping and room for future mods it's what i'd get.
again in that price range you'd get a really nice 80 series wagon, possibly even a 1hdfte which is a great motor but with the cruiser utes and troopy's you'd only get an atmo 1hz and it will have done some decent km's, well over 300km unless you got lucky.
they're big slow and thirsty around town but will run forever if you service them.

in the end check them out for yourselves and see which you like best.

Sharpy1991
23-08-2011, 02:22 PM
I have a rodeo 4x4. It doesn't have to gearstick to go between 4h, 4l and 2h. It's got 3 buttons above the stereo. Pretty handy when it's raining or when you want to put it in 4wd without getting covered in mud or whatever

ForgedV6
23-08-2011, 03:16 PM
Thanks mate, i can appreciate these threads being hard but its everyones biases or varied opinions that help me make a decision.

Hilux prices are annoying, they are currently holding over 70% of there resale value! Thats ridiculous!

In your opinion and in relation to your road manners comment, do the tray back and extra cab tray backs behave well?

Anything 4.2 ive head is extremely reliable but all within my price range have over 350000kms as you have said. Maybe i will get lucky.

Cheers for the advice, ill take some for test drives soon :D

ForgedV6
23-08-2011, 03:17 PM
I have a rodeo 4x4. It doesn't have to gearstick to go between 4h, 4l and 2h. It's got 3 buttons above the stereo. Pretty handy when it's raining or when you want to put it in 4wd without getting covered in mud or whatever

Have you heard about the fault light problem in these when trying to engage one of the ranges?

Specko
23-08-2011, 09:23 PM
Ive heard/read this is potentially a common problem. With a 4WD check light appearing causing an issue with the controller and replacement is approx $500.

Specko,

Thanks heaps for the reply, ill try an cover everything in your reply.

I only like the sixth generation Hilux and the previous model Triton in the dual cabs for their looks and could therefore live without sleeping in the tray. The seventh gen Hilux style side or well body in my opinion doesn't look as nice. The seventh gen Hilux space cab looks like it has a shorter tray back (unknown size) therefore the cab chassis tray back is on the cards if i find one at the right price.

All other dual cabs have trays that are too short and i wouldn't be able to set it up for sleeping and the looks don't outweigh this.

Manual transmission being more reliable is good to know. Google search brings up a lot of pro's towards an automatic for 4x4 duties especially for those wanting to get serious. I however dont mind but would go for greater reliability.

Generally, how do tray backs perform offroad? Does the light rear end reduce offroad performance?

I would consider a wagon such as Troopcarrier, Cruiser or Patrol but they are fairly heavy and i dont think they would be ideal for the daily commute.

Suspension mods is something i would definitely do, so really i could survive with either suspension design. Thats good to know.

I just dont really like the Ford or Mazda 4x4's.

Having a chat to a 4x4 shop is something ill do but i would prefer to be a little bit educated on the subject otherwise i wouldn't understand his reply.

Ill also jump on 4WD Action and post the same thread.

Thanks again.

Traybacks,Dualcabs all perform the same/very similar offroad. Again it depends on what aftermarket springs and shocks you get. E.g a heavy duty spring wont flex as well as a performance based spring due to the number of leafs in each leaf pack,If you understand what i mean? This info is for all the Utes on your list. Also get Greaseable Shackles when you get your Aftermarket suspension,Makes the ride just a little bit nicer plus the shackles last longer because you can grease them. I know you dont like the mazda or ford 4wds but go take one for a drive mate you will be surprised at how good they go. Best matched engine and manual gearbox out of all the dualcabs on the market, Thats what many people say. As for tray length for sleeping etc i dont think theres any dualcab on the market where you could sleep in the tub with the tail gate up. But i have a 1997 Ford Courier dualcab and if i go camping of beach fishin i just wack the canopy on there and chuck a heap of rugs in and just sleep with the tail gate down,it doesnt bother me at all. Hope this Helps Mate.

ADZ
23-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Have you heard about the fault light problem in these when trying to engage one of the ranges?

I also have a 3L TD RA 4x4 Rodeo with the buttons to engage. It's used constantly offroad and never had an issue with this.

Whilst I don't doubt it could be a potential problem, it hasn't failed me to date. I too was in the same position when searching for a 4x4. I just couldn't justify spending 20k on a 350km+ Hilux in miner spec, instead brought a top-spec rodeo with incredibly low km's with all the gear for less money and picked up a 3 year warranty off the dealership (secured the 'reliability' side of things).

Shop around, drive a few and see what you like. I'd still love to get hold of a 4.2TD Patrol at some stage, but for now the Rodeo gets me out on the beach in comfort/ease as well as doubling as a decent work horse.

earlybirds
23-08-2011, 10:12 PM
yeah look at a rodeo/colorado , ranger/bt-50 !
my 2 bob ...

ForgedV6
23-08-2011, 10:34 PM
Thanks Adz and earlybirds.

I am really keen on the Rodeo and D-max to be honest. Good to know you havnt had an issued with the range computer.

How does it perform power wise? Sluggish?

Is the 3.0L TD engine the same in all Rodeo's, Colorando and Dmax??

Sharpy1991
24-08-2011, 07:31 AM
Don't get a petrol whatever you do, I've got the 3.5v6 and it sucks fuel, Still capable enough offroad though. Also it sounds awesome on full song trying to get out of a bog 

Mines also done 240k kms so I think anything that could go wrong with it already has.

Lukey
24-08-2011, 03:09 PM
4.2 toyota/nissan diesels regulary see 450,000+kms before needing serious rebuilds.
Would be up there as the most bullet proof engines built. Avoid anything thats seen the mines like the plague

ForgedV6
24-08-2011, 03:47 PM
Sharpy - Not keen on a petrol, needs to be diesel.

Lukey - When i began looking the extremely high kms of some surprised me! But obviously go the distance. Is there any realy way to identify a fleet or mine 4x4?

eScoRt20
24-08-2011, 07:09 PM
ash tray in centre console, open lid, and lift the whole assembly straight up. its usual to have some dust and red dirt under here, especially when a car has done 300k+, but a mine site will be red everywhere. if its spotless, its probably been cleaned, and the only reason to clean inside a console is the was full of red dust... if that makes sense.

ADZ
24-08-2011, 07:35 PM
Thanks Adz and earlybirds.

I am really keen on the Rodeo and D-max to be honest. Good to know you havnt had an issued with the range computer.

How does it perform power wise? Sluggish?

Is the 3.0L TD engine the same in all Rodeo's, Colorando and Dmax??

It wont win a drag race, but that's more to do with the ratio's. As with most of the commercial spec type 4x4s you'll find you will be shifting to 3rd by the time you are across a set of lights. In saying that, MORE than adequate for beach/4wding work. Haven't found myself short on power at anystage yet (though certainly wouldnt complain with more!).

Just go for a visit to a few 2nd had dealerships and take some for a drive, you'll know real quick what you do/don't like.

Lukey
24-08-2011, 09:26 PM
Sharpy - Not keen on a petrol, needs to be diesel.

Lukey - When i began looking the extremely high kms of some surprised me! But obviously go the distance. Is there any realy way to identify a fleet or mine 4x4?

the log book is a good place to look, usually has the previous owners details. and like old mate said look for red dust, under the vinyl, consoles anywhere you normally wouldnt consider detailing. in the back of the wagons behind there is usually openings in the trim to stash the jack. prime spot for red dirt

Passage GT
25-08-2011, 10:40 PM
i realise you weren't too keen on the push button 4wd but my mother in law has had 2 rodeo's in the last 10 years, both bought brand new and never had any issues with it
this is a really good rig in my opinion, has some really nice extras.

http://tinyurl.com/3rumvsm

SLIPPERY
07-09-2011, 05:35 PM
did you end up buying anything yet?