F1 2017 [Archive] - Antilag Forums

Gleeso

04-01-2017, 07:56 AM

read an article saying ferrari asked for clarification of Mercs/RBR hydraulic suspension setups they have been deemed illegal, ferrari waited 6 months to do it so they would keep developing their new cars with it

FERRARI'S QUERY TO FIA

In a letter to F1 race director Charlie Whiting, circulated to all teams, Ferrari's chief designer Simone Resta said his team was considering a system that could replicate FRIC without a physical connection between the front and the rear of the car.

The issue was whether these systems breached the catch-all article 3.15 of F1's technical regulations that effectively outlaws moveable aerodynamic devices, as they could help the car's aerodynamic characteristics.

"We are considering a family of suspension devices that we believe could offer a performance improvement through a response that is a more complex function of the load at the wheels than would be obtained through a simple combination of springs, dampers and inerters," wrote Resta.

"In all cases they would be installed between some combination of the sprung part of the car and the two suspension rockers on a single axle, and achieve an effect similar to that of a FRIC system without requiring any connection between the front and rear of the car.

"All suspension devices in question feature a moveable spring seat and they use energy recovered from wheel loads and displacements to alter the position of the heave spring.

"Their contribution to the primary purpose of the sprung suspension - the attachment of the wheels to the car in a manner which isolates the sprung part from road disturbances - is small, while their effect on ride height and hence aerodynamic performance is much larger, to the extent that we believe it could justify the additional weight and design complexity.

"We would therefore question the legality of these systems under Art. 3.15 and its interpretation in TD/002-11, discriminating between whether certain details are 'wholly incidental to the main purpose of the suspension system' or 'have been contrived to directly affect the aerodynamic performance of the car'."

Resta specified that Ferrari's concern was over components that exhibited either:

"1) displacement in a direction opposed to the applied load over some or all of its travel, regardless of the source of the stored energy used to achieve this.

"Or

"2) a means by which some of the energy recovered from the forces and displacements at the wheel can be stored for release at a later time to extend a spring seat or other parts of the suspension assembly whose movement is not defined by the principally vertical suspension travel of the two wheels."

WHITING: CONCEPTS 'CONTRAVENE' RULES

Whiting responded that any suspension system that acted in such a way was not in compliance with the regulations.

"In our view any suspension system which was capable of altering the response of a cars' suspension system in the way you describe in paragraphs 1) and 2) would be likely to contravene article 3.15 of the F1 technical regulations," he wrote.

Although Whiting's response would appear to outlaw the use of the trick suspension technology, it is understood teams affected have queried the situation.

As talks continue, any team running a device that could be interpreted as breaching the rules now faces a dilemma over whether to commit to it in its 2017 design but risk a final ruling outlawing the concept, or pursue an alternative system that may not be as competitive.

anton

06-01-2017, 09:15 PM

Manor is Done. potential buyer fell through

Buckets

06-01-2017, 09:23 PM

Manor won't be allowed to fall over, someone will pick it up. 2nd Honda powered team is the likely outcome IMO.

anton

11-01-2017, 12:53 AM

everythings buzzing apparenly Paddy lowe has left mercedes and bottas rumore to be annouced shortly

11-01-2017, 08:15 AM

Paddy is gone - confirmed.

This is nothing new.

He wants to run a team like Ross Brawn did - he can't do that at Merc with their boards and corporate ownership. Williams will give him that.

Wrexter

11-01-2017, 09:15 AM

Allison to Mercedes should be interesting.

Whats the feeling around this, i know he did good work at Renault, but he didn't achieve much at Ferrari, was that more because Ferrari didnt give him the Freedom (i.e. too much Italian politics).

ELUSIV

16-01-2017, 10:51 PM

http://i.imgur.com/JsB8vdq.png

Adr3naL1N

16-01-2017, 11:45 PM

confirmed bottas to Mercedes and massa to return to Williams!!

17-01-2017, 08:04 AM

Massa to Williams is a waste of a seat.

17-01-2017, 08:14 AM

From Autosport plus

This story was supposed to be over. Felipe Massa said his tearful farewell to Formula 1 last November, draped in the flag of his native Brazil and waving an emotional goodbye to the sport that made him a much-loved star.

Then world champion Nico Rosberg made his shock decision to retire with immediate effect, Mercedes identified Massa's Williams team-mate Valtteri Bottas as the man it wants to replace him, Williams said he could only leave if it could secure an 'experienced, credible alternative' to step into the breech, and now it looks as though Massa will begin to challenge Nigel Mansell as F1's leading proponent of faux retirement.

Successful comebacks are rare in F1. Niki Lauda is the undoubted master, coming back from the dead to fight James Hunt for the 1976 world championship after his horrendous Nurburgring accident, and then returning from a two-year hiatus following an uncompetitive stint with Brabham to win races and the '84 title for McLaren.

Mansell had two famous stabs of course - both successful to begin with. His first retirement was hardly worthy of the name, lasting only a matter of months before Frank Williams found him a competitive balm with which to sooth the mental wounds created by the frustration of feeling second rate to Alain Prost at Ferrari in 1990. Mansell fought Ayrton Senna for the world championship in 1991, and dominated en route to his only title the following year.

His second comeback from retirement was ultimately an embarrassing failure. Coaxed back into F1 as the reigning Indycar champion to be a part-time replacement for Senna, following the Brazilian's death at Imola in 1994, Mansell was on pole for the season finale in Adelaide, and won that race after Michael Schumacher and Damon Hill collided.

He made a full-time comeback in 1995 with McLaren, after Williams opted to pair Hill with young Scot David Coulthard instead of Mansell, but his frame wouldn't fit in the original MP4/10, so he was replaced by Mark Blundell until the updated B-car arrived for round three at Imola. Mansell only made two starts before his F1 career finally bit the dust for good.

Prost took an enforced sabbatical after losing his Ferrari drive at the end of 1991, before returning to win the world championship with Williams one last time in '93 then calling it quits.

Kimi Raikkonen won two races for Lotus and has subsequently enjoyed gainful employment with Ferrari after losing his original drive with the Scuderia to Fernando Alonso for 2010. The Finn has arguably not been at his very best since returning, but nevertheless still competitive enough to remain at Maranello, despite missing two seasons of F1.

Massa owes the most fruitful portion of his own F1 career to Schumacher's first retirement at the end of 2006. That move allowed the Brazilian to extend his Ferrari career, going on to win nine races over the next two seasons and challenge Lewis Hamilton for the 2008 world championship.

Schumacher stayed away for three years, before making a comeback with Mercedes in 2010. His performances were respectable enough, including a podium finish in '12, but the great champion was firmly shaded by team-mate Rosberg and retired for good after Mercedes signed Hamilton for '13. Given Schumacher's previous legendary achievements, this comeback can hardly be considered an unqualified success.

Timing, and the nature of a driver's departure, appear to be key. Lauda quit because Brabham was not competitive, not because he was too old to race on, or because he'd lost his edge. Mansell - first time around at least - was still at the peak of his powers, but 1995 was arguably a stretch too far for a driver who'd missed the best part of two seasons (and major rule changes), despite that Adelaide victory.

Raikkonen didn't want to stop; he was forced out. Schumacher chose to stop while he was still competitive, but arguably sat on the sidelines a little too long before making his comeback. He was 41 at the start of the 2010 season and not quite the same driver that dominated F1 for so long first time around.

Massa clearly doesn't need to worry about getting left behind by the passing of time. After all, he finished the final race of 2016 in the points, bowing out with a performance that made former Williams technical chief Pat Symonds question why the Brazilian was retiring from F1 in the first place. If Massa lines up on the 2017 grid for Williams, in place of Bottas, it will ostensibly look as though he never left.

There is understandable logic to Williams identifying Massa as the man it wants to replace Bottas. Before he left the team at the end of last month, Symonds spoke repeatedly about the importance of continuity in driver line-ups - especially heading into the significant regulatory upheaval of this season.

Symonds was actually referring to the importance of retaining Bottas, something he described in the run up to Christmas as "crucial" to Williams's chances of future success. Williams needs a fast and reliable reference point in order to best understand the strengths and weaknesses of its new car, and to help bring rookie signing Lance Stroll up to speed.

But that logic could equally apply to Massa. At this late stage he is the only credible driver of experience not already contracted to a rival team. He is a veteran of 250 grands prix, winner of 11, and was briefly set to become world champion in 2008, before Hamilton squeaked ahead of Timo Glock's Toyota on the run to the Interlagos finishing line to steal the crown away.

Given the dearth of alternatives, Massa is the logical and safe choice for Williams - experienced, known and liked by the team, and capable (on his good days) of putting Bottas under serious pressure.

But those good days grew further apart in frequency during last season, which makes Massa simultaneously a risky option too. This is a driver who was comprehensively beaten by his team-mate in 2016; a driver that Williams ranked behind Bottas, Stroll, and McLaren's own semi-retired Jenson Button on its original '17 wishlist; a driver who had no other serious options to remain in F1 once Williams decided to let him go.

Massa could come back better and more motivated than ever, given he hasn't actually missed any races and arguably didn't really want to retire in the first instance. Or he could struggle to gather the necessary strength of conviction to do it all over again, given he had clearly decided to leave F1 for good, embarked on a farewell tour and said his goodbyes. A lot will depend on his state of mind.

He always said he wanted to continue racing this year, whether in F1 or not, so one assumes he will be motivated, but he was an inconsistent performer for much of last season, so will need to do more than simply make a comeback to fill Bottas's boots. Massa will need to be better. That's no easy task for any driver, let alone one whose best days in F1 looked to be behind him.

Williams could end up with the Massa that drove his heart out in Abu Dhabi and so impressed Symonds, or it could get stuck with the Massa that retired his car to the garage with an untraceable handling problem in Germany, after a woefully uncompetitive showing. Therein lies the risk with this seemingly 'safe' option.

Of course Williams could have just left Massa to his retirement. Originally, Mercedes offered junior driver Pascal Wehrlein, plus a reduction in the cost of its 2017 customer engine supply to Williams, in exchange for Bottas. But Williams rejected that offer on the grounds that it absolutely needed an experienced driver.

This is a time-old folly of Formula 1 teams. For organisations that are designed to innovate technically, they often seem distinctly analogue when it comes to drivers. Wehrlein was F1's outstanding rookie in 2016, a driver that lapped within 0.15 seconds of Massa in Q1 at the Austrian Grand Prix (where Wehrlein also scored Manor's only championship point), despite driving a substantially inferior chassis, and someone who Mercedes rates among the best young drivers on the planet.

Why pass up that sort of ability? If Mercedes fails in its quest to sign Bottas, you can bet Wehrlein is the man it would want in the car instead.

Wehrlein could very well be faster than Massa, Wehrlein's capacity to improve will be greater, his desire to do so should be greater too, and surely the knowledge of a top car he's gained already by working closely with Mercedes as its test driver is just as valuable (if not more so) as Massa's vaster experience to an ambitious squad like Williams, which still has serious ground to cover in its mission to return to the front in F1?

There are suggestions that principal sponsor Martini was concerned by the prospect of Williams running two drivers under 23 years of age, and questions remain about Wehrlein's attitude, which played a part in Force India's decision to pick Esteban Ocon over him as Nico Hulkenberg's replacement.

While certainly not the finished article, Wehrlein still looks a fine prospect, and will still land on his feet, most likely at Sauber, but this feels like a missed opportunity for Williams as much as for Wehrlein.

Often it seems F1 teams are predisposed to overlook the greater promise of young drivers in favour of the devil they already know, even if that devil's best days are already behind them.

This sort of thinking has kept Raikkonen at Ferrari, despite long fallow periods of underachievement. Perhaps this situation would be different had Jules Bianchi not died following his 2014 Japanese GP accident; perhaps it has also made Ferrari realise the need to invest more in young drivers. GP3 champion Charles Leclerc looks a very promising prospect within its driver academy, and it has also signed Antonio Giovinazzi (GP2's outstanding rookie and runner-up in 2016) to be its third driver this year.

Williams itself recently enjoyed the fruits of backing Bottas on the strength of his practice outings for the team in 2012, and the recent success Red Bull has enjoyed with Sebastian Vettel, Daniel Ricciardo, and Max Verstappen suggests the ability and promise of the driver counts for more than previous levels of experience.

Of course it's possible to get better with age, but sometimes it pays more to give youth a chance. Williams should be bold and leave Massa to his retirement.

dmanvan

17-01-2017, 10:40 AM

This Q/a prob puts a lot more of his decision in perspective.....don't let truth get in the way of a good story......;)

Brazilian Felipe Massa explains his passion for grand prix racing and the reasons he didn’t need to be persuaded twice about curtailing his retirement plans.
After going through the motions of saying farewell to F1 last year, Massa has answered an SOS from Williams to comeback and fill the breach left by Mercedes-bound Valtteri Bottas.
Massa, the decidedly likeable 11-times grand prix winning driver, bid farewell in front of a packed home crowd at Interlagos just ahead of his final race at Abu Dhabi in November.
Then when Nico Rosberg floored the F1 world with his decision to quit the sport in early December, it paved the way for 35-year-old Massa to put his retirement plans on hold.
Among the chief driving forces for Massa to do a backflip were from key corporate partners at Williams who wanted a senior driver to run alongside the already confirmed teenager Lance Stroll.
Massa explains his reasons for returning in this interview supplied by the Williams team.

Q: You said at the end of last season that you felt it was the right time to retire from Formula One, what has changed?
MASSA: My intention was always to race somewhere, as I still have the passion for racing and competing.
I also have a strong love for Williams as I have enjoyed the last three years with the team, and therefore coming back to help give stability and experience to drive things forward in 2017 was something that felt right to do.

Q: Could you have looked at other opportunities to stay in Formula One, if you were still open to the idea?
MASSA: I have a passion for racing, for competing and for fighting on the track. My return is not about seeing Formula One as the best option, but is about seeing the role at Williams as the best option.
I would not have returned for any other team.

Q: You left the sport on such a high at the end of last season, is there a danger that you won’t get the same reception now you have returned?
MASSA: The scenes I saw in Brazil and Abu Dhabi last year are ones that I will never forget. I am so grateful for everything that happened last year and all the kind messages.
Whatever happens this season, I will always leave the sport with my head held high.

Q: Do you still have the desire to race in Formula One?
MASSA: When I joined Williams back in 2014 I found a team – and a family – that I have loved being a part of.
I certainly haven’t lost the desire to race and fight on track. Whatever I would have turned my hand to this year, I would have been putting 100 percent effort into doing the best job that I can, and if I didn’t have that passion, I would not have agreed to return.

Q: You have been linked to a number of different race series over the winter, how far had conversations gone?
MASSA: Since announcing my retirement last year, I had been assessing my options and there were a number of opportunities presented to me that I could have pursued.
However, I have made my decision and therefore this is now my focus.

Q: How does it feel to be replacing your old team-mate Valtteri?
MASSA: Going to the current World Champions is a great opportunity for Valtteri. He is a talented racer and it was great working alongside him for three years. I wish him all the best for the next chapter of his career.

Q: Can we assume that money was a factor in your decision to return to Formula One?
MASSA: I won’t be discussing figures or any details regarding the negotiations. All I will say is that this was the right decision and I am happy to continue as part of the team.

Q: What helped make the decision and what factors did you take into consideration?
MASSA: I think what happened at the end of last season with Nico’s unexpected retirement sparked a unique turn of events.
Valtteri has been offered a fantastic opportunity and, as a result, an opportunity arose for me.
When the media began reporting that I might return, I was touched by the response from so many fans who wanted to see me back in the sport.
That was certainly a factor in the decision, so I’d like to thank the fans for their support.
But, at the end of the day, when I received the call it was an offer I couldn’t refuse. It was Williams!

Q: Can you confirm this is a one-year deal?
MASSA: At present this is a deal for 2017 only and I have not thought beyond.

Q: What are your thoughts on your new team-mate Lance Stroll?
MASSA: I’m looking forward to working with Lance, having known him for a long time.
He has proved in the championships he has competed in so far that he deserves this opportunity, and it’s great to welcome new talent into Formula One.
Lance may be young, but Williams has a history of bringing young drivers into the sport.
He knows there is a steep learning curve ahead, but motorsport is a team sport and I look forward supporting him in any way I can.

Q: What are your thoughts and hopes for 2017?
MASSA: It’s going to be an exciting year with all the regulation changes and I’m going to be spending lots of time with the team now preparing for the season.
It’s too soon to make predictions, as we haven’t even turned a wheel.
But I can say that I’m very much looking forward to driving the FW40 when testing begins next month.

Q: Williams is celebrating 40 years in Formula One this year, are you looking forward to being part of that?
MASSA: Yes, very much. Williams has such a great history in the sport and reaching this milestone is a fantastic achievement.
I know the team has more plans to celebrate this year and I’m looking forward to being part of them.

ref: http://www.speedcafe.com/2017/01/17/qa-felipe-massa/

..

summoner

17-01-2017, 10:46 AM

The things we all knew have finally been confirmed

Werhlein to Sauber
Massa back at Williams
Bottas at MGP and will hopefully give Hamilton a solid run.

Manor has found an interested party but they have given the teams administrators only a few days to either accept or reject their offer.

It would be nice to see them survive or at least a few more teams come into it in a way.

Gleeso

17-01-2017, 11:32 AM

Going to be a shit year for Sauber with their year old engine, I hope they have some decent aero bits to not be immediately at the back.

17-01-2017, 01:14 PM

2016 Ferrari is liable to be better than Renault and Honda 2017

anton

18-01-2017, 03:49 AM

http://i.imgur.com/dV6GYRj.png
http://i.imgur.com/0xQjGFU.jpg

summoner

18-01-2017, 05:00 AM

Wonder if 2017 is the year McLaren gets a proper sponsor

18-01-2017, 08:19 AM

Wonder if 2017 is the year McLaren gets a proper sponsor

Unlikely but Zak is sposed to be a gun with that stuff, so who knows.

18-01-2017, 08:20 AM

Ex-Formula 1 driver Martin Brundle believes Valtteri Bottas will have nowhere to hide following his switch from Williams to Mercedes for 2017.

After weeks of speculation following the surprise retirement of Nico Rosberg just days after he won his first world championship in Abu Dhabi, Bottas was confirmed as Lewis Hamilton's new team-mate on Monday.

ANALYSIS: Why Mercedes picked Bottas

"Bottas has got the speed, but it's a different story when you turn up in a car where winning races and the championship is expected, not a wish," Brundle said at Autosport International, before Bottas's deal was made official.

"There is nowhere to run and hide - I think Valtteri has the mental capacity to handle that.

"Lewis is kind of 'bring it on, send anybody you like and I'll be faster than them', but I think he would be a bit more edgy if it was Fernando Alonso or Sebastian Vettel.

"Where it gets really exciting is at the end of this season, when so many top drivers are out of contract."

Brundle added that he could not understand Rosberg's decision to retire as soon as he won the title, and he believes it could disturb Mercedes' momentum.

"It left Mercedes in a very difficult position, and it might actually affect them for a couple of seasons," he said.

"I admire that Nico had the courage of his convictions to say 'this is the high point, I'm going to jump off now because I've achieved everything I wanted to' - it's a bold and brave decision.

"But where's the passion, where's the commitment, to show the world again you're the best in this amazing car, this amazing team?

"Most of us would have given anything to drive that car for just one season in our careers.

"If you do get to the peak, enjoy the view and the jubilation of descent - don't take the lift down or the first emergency exit.

"I don't get it. But full respect to him, and you can't question that, it's his decision. But that doesn't mean I understand it."

summoner

18-01-2017, 08:23 AM

Unlikely but Zak is sposed to be a gun with that stuff, so who knows.

It's sad to not see them with a major on the car. Sure they're chugging along but has to hurt the bottom line to an extent.

djr81

19-01-2017, 11:38 AM

Hearing McLaren may well be running orange livery. Good good.

Buckets

19-01-2017, 11:57 AM

The 2017 team kit is grey & gay.

No orange on there.

19-01-2017, 01:01 PM

McLaren is set for a major Formula 1 livery revamp this year, amid mounting suggestions its new car will incorporate its iconic orange branding.

The team is embarking on a new era following the departure of its long-time chairman Ron Dennis at the end of last year, with executive director Zak Brown eager to revitalise the Woking-based outfit.

Brown, who became known as F1's sponsorship and marketing guru, has been clear that McLaren will do things differently from now on, and that is poised to include a new look for its car.

Speaking at last weekend's Autosport International show, Brown said the team's 2017 livery had been signed off, and he dropped a big hint about visual changes.

"We've shown it to the guys and girls at McLaren and we're very excited for our future," he said.

"We've just signed off on the car livery and I think the fans will be excited to find out what the car looks like both technically and visually."

Further rumours about the livery plans have been fuelled by the team's use of orange lettering in the tweet that confirmed the date of its 2017 car launch.

Sources suggest that the change coming for 2017 could hark back to the famous orange livery that the team ran in Can-Am and in F1 from 1968 to 1971.

McLaren has also run the orange colours during pre-season testing before - ahead of the 1997 and '98 campaigns and again in 2006 [pictured below].

Whether or not the entire McLaren 2017 F1 will be orange, or if only sections of the car will be orange, has not been revealed though, with the team eager to keep quiet about its plans prior to the launch on February 24.

There was talk ahead of McLaren's new partnership with Honda in 2015 that it could switch to a red and white design, but in the end it stuck with the traditional chrome and dark grey concept that it had used since 1997 before switching to black and red for the fifth race of the year in Spain.

Ahead of the 2015 campaign, then-McLaren boss Dennis said he saw no reason to change just because fans wanted the car to look better.

"We have had the same [discussions about livery] inside the team: all of these people were saying, why don't we make it orange - because that was the old colour of McLaren?" he said.

"Well, I say, 'you just said it - it was the old colour of McLaren. Why the hell do we want to go backwards?'

"So what do you do? Do you create an aesthetically pleasing design? But for what purpose?

"This is the livery of McLaren. It has always been a combination of these colours - and it will only change for commercial reasons.

"It won't change just to make a few people in the company happier because they want it orange or they want it yellow."

summoner

20-01-2017, 08:36 AM

Considering a vast majority of fans were hoping for some retro/throwback livery the last few seasons and got pretty much the same boring shit from before it's nice to think they might actually do something that fans will like.

Ron ended up with his head too far up his ass.. sure he "was" good at his role but I believe that ended long ago.

1aaron

20-01-2017, 08:46 AM

Interesting article about Bottas. I tend to agree.

http://wtf1.co.uk/bottas-step-game-2017/

"I reckon the only way he can convince Mercedes he’s the man for them beyond this season is to be as close to Hamilton as Rosberg was. While Bottas has consistently performed at a very high level, rarely has he stepped up to do something a little bit special in the way we often see from the likes of Hamilton, Ricciardo and more recently, Verstappen. For that reason and the ones I mentioned above, I don’t think he can manage"

Sebdullah

24-01-2017, 08:32 AM

So Bernie is out... Discuss

24-01-2017, 08:38 AM

Brawn the cheeky fuck - did an interview all of 2 weeks ago saying he wasn't interested in returning.. boom, there he is.

Good and bad for F1 - Bernie is the overlord who made F1 what it is, good and bad for the most.

Adr3naL1N

24-01-2017, 09:05 AM

As its starting to get a little close whose heading over to Melbourne for the season opener?

anton

27-01-2017, 10:55 PM

Manors Buyer Fell through, staff made redundent and sent home

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/manor-2017-wind-tunnel-model-c.jpg

hostage_85

29-01-2017, 12:44 PM

Ahh shit, that sucks

crabman

29-01-2017, 02:07 PM

As its starting to get a little close whose heading over to Melbourne for the season opener?

Roster just changed on me, I now miss out on Melb, KL and Sing.

02-02-2017, 07:58 AM

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127960/lowe-to-take-up-top-williams-role-next-month

So keen to see what he can do there

#makewilliamsgreatagain

anton

03-02-2017, 10:38 PM

Why Mclaren WHY!!
https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/827479893940248577

half assed lame shit if you going to change something just do it and be done with it

anton

14-02-2017, 10:03 PM

http://i.imgur.com/QcXtiQs.jpg

munt

14-02-2017, 10:09 PM

Got flights and tickets for Melb GP, will be a big month with RW too. Excited!

15-02-2017, 08:10 AM

I have long argued this point.

But Mario Andretti to me, pound for pound, is the greatest of all time. Today's Autosport Plus

Versatile drivers are easy to admire. Not only do they demonstrate their abilities in different machinery and a variety of series, they also tend to be among the most passionate and enthusiastic of racers. They love doing what they do.

When talking about stars such as Stirling Moss, Jim Clark and Mario Andretti, it's easy to lament the fact that top drivers rarely do more than race in their main championships these days. That is partly an inevitable consequence of the increasing professionalism and quality of top series. Jumping in and taking on the specialists is no easy task and requires proper commitment.

Moss is often held up as the benchmark for all-round driving talent. But is he the best ever?

YES - Kevin Turner, Editor (@KRT917)

Many drivers have competed across different motorsport categories and a select few have been successful in multiple disciplines. But only Moss was so consistently the benchmark whatever he got into.

There's little doubt that Moss was the world's best sportscar driver by the mid-1950s, underlined by the significant advantage he had over Mercedes team-mate Juan Manuel Fangio during '55. How he stacked up against the Argentinian - who must still be regarded as one of the top 10 Formula 1 drivers ever - over the next two F1 campaigns is open to debate, but once Fangio retired Moss became the undisputed top dog.

He famously never won the F1 world title, but his peers knew he was the man to beat. From the start of 1958 to the end of '61, Moss won more world championship grands prix than anyone else (10, to second-best Jack Brabham's seven), despite missing some of the '60 season and driving for Rob Walker's privateer squad against factory teams. He was thus the best in both F1 and sportscars, which at that time was virtually on a par with grand prix racing.

But that is only part of the argument for Moss. He also won the first saloon car races in the United Kingdom at Silverstone - events that led to the formation of what we now call the British Touring Car Championship - and was an ace in F2 and 500cc F3 machines, taking on and beating the category specialists. He often won multiple races in different cars on the same weekend.

One of the reasons he was able to do this was that Moss could win in inferior equipment. He could jump in, get on the pace quickly and maximise what he had, surely essential traits for any potential 'greatest all-rounder'.

He was, simply, versatile at a higher level than everyone else.

NO - Edd Straw, Editor-in-Chief (@EddStrawF1)

Most of what is said about Moss is indisputable; he was one of the all-time greats in Formula 1 and sportscars, supported by great success in other machinery. But this was predominantly within one racing culture, even though he did also have some success in rallying.

We are talking about the greatest all-rounder here, and Moss's body of work is not quite broad enough for that accolade. A great all-rounder? Yes. The greatest all-rounder? No. That accolade can only go to Mario Andretti.

Did Andretti quite reach the heights of Moss in Formula 1? Despite winning the world championship that Moss never did, no. He never was indisputably the very best in GP racing in the same way Moss was, but it was precisely because of his versatility that he was rarely dedicated to F1. It wasn't until his ninth season that he contested a full campaign. You could argue that his pursuit of the F1 title was simply a sideline to his American career. And what a sideline.

But Andretti is a contender for the greatest of all Indycar drivers, winning four titles and 52 races, including the Indianapolis 500. He was also a force in sprint and midget cars and excelled on dirt tracks. And did I mention he also won Pikes Peak, and even a drag race?!

Sportscars? Well, he was a serious force there, winning the Daytona and Sebring classics a combined total of four times, and the Brands Hatch 1000Km in 1972.

Not convinced? He was also a force in stock cars, winning the 1967 Daytona 500 with a gamechanging performance, and taking the 1979 IROC crown.

Andretti probably could have been the best had he focused on any of these areas. Instead, he left his mark in more forms of four-wheeled competition than anyone else before or since.

YES: Moss conquered left-field classics

There is certainly no arguing with Andretti's breadth of achievement, but I think Edd underestimates that trait for Moss.

It's true that his successes were largely achieved in one racing culture, but within that was greater variety than you might see today, or even in Andretti's era. For example, road-racing epics such as the Mille Miglia, Targa Florio and Dundrod Tourist Trophy (Moss's 1954 win is pictured above) were very different to circuit events of the time.

Moss won at all three, with his 1955 Mille Miglia success being one of the greatest motorsport performances of all time, while Andretti has no equivalent on his admittedly impressive CV.

You would need to combine several of the categories in which Andretti was successful to reach the range of challenge faced by sportscar competitors of the '50s, such was the variety of events.

I think it's also worth pointing out that Moss's rallying ability was outstanding. Outside of his normal comfort zone, he won the coveted Coupe des Alpes en Or for three consecutive penalty-free Alpine Rallies. That's not a bad sideline either.

Would Andretti have been a successful rally driver? Probably. But I'd argue that Moss would have been incredible in an Indycar.

The point is that Moss was the best whatever the challenge, whether it be a non-championship half-hour F1 encounter at Goodwood or a 10-hour test of endurance around Italy.

If no driver had ever been the benchmark across so many categories, then Andretti's breadth of success would surely make him the greatest all-rounder. But Moss, as Edd agrees, still stands as one of the all-time greats in F1 and sportscars, before you even get onto his other triumphs. Andretti could have been the best had he focused on one area, but Moss was the best even though he didn't. His depth trumps Andretti's breadth.

NO: Andretti went further out of his comfort zone

There's no underestimation of the breadth of Moss's achievements. And while there's no doubting how different the road-race events Kevin mentions were, they remain firmly the same European culture and Moss never encountered anything like the hostility Andretti did in NASCAR - it was clear the stock-car establishment was desperate for this open-wheel upstart not to win the Daytona 500.

It's not that Moss's achievements were narrow, it's simply that Andretti's were far broader. Moss never won a race on the dirt, he never won on a one-mile oval, he never won on a superspeedway - and while it's unfair to hold this against him, Moss never actually managed to win the F1 title, which Andretti did.

Kevin is absolutely right that this argument is rooted in depth versus breadth, but the very nature of searching for a greatest all-rounder means it's the latter that has to be the overriding factor.

Hypothetically, both Andretti and Moss would surely have been very successful in any form of motorsport they turned their hands to. Indeed, they probably could have thrived in plenty of other non-motorsport endeavours. But Andretti is the one who had the more diverse career by an enormous margin.

Had Andretti simply turned up in some of these areas and done OK, the Moss argument would prevail. But Andretti was a relentless winner during a career that stretched from 1959-94 and is regarded by most as the greatest North American racing driver in history. So let's not paint him as anything less than an incredible driver.

In a greatest-racing-driver argument, depth would trump breadth. But not in the all-round argument. There, Andretti's unique career jumping from road courses to ovals, from paving to dirt, open-wheelers to stock cars to sportscars, is streets ahead.

YES: Moss had greater technologic versatility

We'll have to agree to disagree on the depth-versus-breadth argument, or risk going round in circles! But there is another element to Moss's versatility we have not yet explored.

He showed an ability to move with technological change, or even make the most of engineering cul-de-sacs. Moss was the first driver to win a world championship GP in a mid-engined car - one giving away 500cc to his rivals - and remains the only driver to have won an F1 race in a four-wheel-drive car, thanks to his 1961 Oulton Park success in the Ferguson P99 (pictured above).

He was also one of the first, along with Jim Clark, to truly start exploring rotating a mid-engined single-seater on the brakes, a style now essential for any professional racing driver.

Andretti did have to get on top of downforce, but all the top drivers managed that, including Moss's old rival Brabham. In short, Andretti was very good at understanding and perfecting what was required. But Moss was capable of moving the parameters of what that actually meant.

I'd also take issue with the argument that Andretti was a relentless winner throughout his career. In both F1 and Indycar, he had barren spells while he manoeuvred himself into the right car/team. That he was able to do so several times underlines his status as a great, but you won't find such spells on Moss's CV once he became established.

One last question: if you had to pick a driver to race for your life, without knowing where the event would be or which cars were in play, who would you choose? Moss won nearly half of all the races he contested, a remarkable statistic in the days when cars were less reliable than they are today, so would you really put your life in Andretti's hands? Or Moss's?

NO: Andretti endured for decades

If you're using the mastering of technological change as an argument against Andretti, that's a spectacular own goal. During Andretti's 41-year career he raced and won in a far broader range of machinery than Moss did, albeit not through any fault of Moss, whose frontline career did end prematurely.

Downforce, non-downforce, front-engined, rear-engined, slicks and treaded tyres, midgets and stock cars, he was the first proper ground-effect F1 champion - the list goes on. He won races in the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s and had his last outing in a Panoz Roadster at Le Mans in 2000!

Inevitably, in that period there were times when Andretti wasn't winning, but Moss on his best day wasn't going to win a grand prix in an Alfa Romeo 179C or a Parnelli VPJ4.

As for changing the game, he barely raced in NASCAR but still managed to create and popularise a 'loose' driving style. And he was the gold standard in Indycar in the 1960s.

As for Kevin's final question, the hypothetical one-off race is not fit for purpose. For the greatest all-rounder, this should be a series of four or five races across multiple disciplines, including ovals and the loose. Both Moss and Andretti would excel at two or three, but there'd be no weak points for Mario because of his breadth of experience.

To conclude, the term all-rounder is derived from cricket. You can be a great all-rounder without necessarily being the best batsman or bowler. It's been argued very well that Moss was an all-time great with the bat in various conditions, but not with the ball.

You can argue that Moss is the greatest racing driver, but Andretti's longevity, his success across multiple different types of cars, techn

15-02-2017, 09:42 AM

Also in todays autosport plus...

Greatness divides opinion, then judgement softens in time and the darker sides of the greats fade. That process is accelerated by a tragic conclusion - in motorsport, such examples include the late James Hunt, Gilles Villeneuve and Ayrton Senna, and the seriously injured Michael Schumacher.

Perceptions change in such circumstances. The old saying 'you don't know what you have until it's gone' springs to mind, a phenomenon modern Formula 1 is currently experiencing with Lewis Hamilton. But a driver should not have to die to be fully appreciated.

Like all F1 legends who had their detractors, Hamilton's legacy may eventually outstrip his flaws. And while that is hopefully achieved through retirement, rather than anything severe, why is true appreciation in his time so difficult to achieve?

Take last year's Abu Dhabi season finale and the fallout of Hamilton backing up team-mate Nico Rosberg in pursuit of a fourth title. It was vintage Hamilton: imperious in practice, untouchable in qualifying, completely in control in the race.

Rosberg still won the title, Hamilton still won the race, Mercedes still got its one-two, and F1 got the tense finale it was craving. Yet even with so, Hamilton came in for criticism.

The bafflement quickly transitions to sad resignation, though. This is Hamilton. It doesn't matter how good he is, or what good he does, he will always be something of an anti-hero.

This is pertinent heading into the 2017 season because Hamilton has yet another shot at rewriting history. As outlined here by Autosport's Ben Anderson, Mercedes still leading the field is a very realistic prospect, despite the regulation changes. That means a fourth world title will be in Hamilton's sight. If he achieves that, he will become the first British driver to do so and will eclipse his hero Senna in the overall statistics in the process - not to mention potentially breaking some other F1 records along the way.

Stats can't buy love, though. And pondering Hamilton's divisive character is an exhausting exercise.

There is a lot of talk of Max Verstappen being the coming man and the future of F1, but also something of a reluctance to appreciate Hamilton for what he has been for some time now - the poster boy modern F1 sorely needs.

Motorsport is mundanely corporate a lot of the time. Hamilton, as Hunt, Villeneuve and Senna did decades ago, stands out from that. He lives a star-studded lifestyle, very much the opposite of the likes of Sebastian Vettel or Kimi Raikkonen. He's generating a devoted following through his social media activity and mingles with the great and good of celebrity culture. His involvement with multiple charities also suggests a genuine desire to use his profile to give back.

Still, there remains a feeling of resentment. He's different, but with him it's a bad thing. Hamilton's musical tastes, his interest in fashion and his glamorous lifestyle supposedly make him an easy off-track target.

At best, it's jealousy, at worst it's something more sinister. Hamilton once joked, referencing Ali G in poor taste, that maybe he was being singled out by stewards because he's black. That was wrong in that scenario, but in a wider sense I'm not convinced his ethnicity is not part of it - mainly because, apart from envy, it's difficult to find a rational explanation for the ease and regularity with which Hamilton rubs people up the wrong way.

On track or off it, Hamilton jars in ways that are far from new - it's just with those from the past, the grievances are conveniently ignored.

Hunt punched a marshal, for example. Villeneuve was capable of driving extremely irresponsibly - look how he's celebrated by some for the footage of him driving in the 1979 Dutch Grand Prix with a blown left rear tyre (which later leads too a flailing wheel rim).

Those actions discarded a chunk of tyre on the racing line, and he continued back to the pits with the car twitching, front wheel aloft. What if Pastor Maldonado had done something so irresponsible? Or if Maldonado had been involved in a battle like Villeneuve's at Dijon with Rene Arnoux - lighting up tyres with last-minute lunges, wheel-banging and flouting of the track limits? Ah, but Gilles was a legend!

And Raikkonen, a driver revered for being 'aloof', is often deliberately disengaged with fans and downright rude and difficult at times. There are other examples, too.

Some people are just popular. Some people just aren't. As the disinterest in the phenomenal achievements of Red Bull and Vettel proved, it's not just Hamilton who has suffered in recent times. And it happens in other sports too - witness the constant derision of England and Manchester United's record-breaking footballer Wayne Rooney. A statistical marvel does not always translate into a popular figure.

The difference between Hamilton and a Rooney type is there has been no decline, no debate to be had over whether he is proving his worth. The present Hamilton is still at the very top of his game.

He's racked up the third-largest number of starts of any Brit, behind Jenson Button and David Coulthard, and won comfortably more races than the two ahead of him in that list. Hamilton has more wins, more poles, more podiums and more fastest laps than any other British F1 driver. By the end of 2017, he might even have more than the next two drivers combined in some of those categories.

Schumacher's jaw-dropping return of 91 wins, and even his 77-strong fastest lap return, might end up being out of reach. If so, it doesn't matter. Hamilton doesn't need to go down as the very best; he's already guaranteed himself a place among the most illustrious company.

Still, it's not enough. Hamilton has devoted fans, of course - most drivers do. And he splits opinion in the same vein as Senna or Schumacher. But he will never be loved. Not like those he stands alongside in the pantheon of greats.

Perhaps the problem also lies in how he has achieved his success. While Schumacher had already won two titles by the time he joined Ferrari, 72 of his 91 wins came in red. For a decade, he carved F1 in his own image.

The same goes for Senna (who won 35 times with McLaren), Nigel Mansell (28 wins with Williams) and Jim Clark (25 with Lotus). Put on your rose-coloured glasses and you'll immediately associate one of those drivers with the team they won the most with.

Will the same go for Hamilton? That he has won two titles and 32 grands prix with Mercedes compared to one title and 21 races with McLaren should, in theory, leave a legacy bathed in a hue of silver. But, barring his initial exploits in karting, his formative years and his explosive entrance to F1 came with McLaren. That connection carries more emotional weight.

It could just be a modern thing. Hamilton's problem applies to Vettel - record after record shattered, and all people could do was find things to complain about. He's a spoiled brat, he's boring, he's got an annoying single-finger salute when he wins.

Pretty much all of Vettel's success has come with one team. He won 39 times in Red Bull colours (2008 Italian Grand Prix victory with Toro Rosso included), but that partnership didn't exactly pull at the heartstrings of F1 fans.

It's hard to see Vettel and the RB9 remembered with same romantic notion of Senna and an MP4/4, despite the obvious similarities - both were marriages of an exciting sponsor, design excellence and prodigious driving talent. And even less successful partnerships invoke a stronger sensory response - like Ronnie Peterson in a Lotus (a nine-win partnership), or Nelson Piquet in a Brabham (16 victories).

One-team drivers have always been rare, though. It's the mark they make on their era, and what they leave behind, that matters most. And a strong case could be made for Hamilton being the most significant driver of his generation.

He is not without his flaws. There have been major on-track gaffes - beaching it in the gravel at Shanghai as a rookie in 2007, rear-ending Raikkonen in the Montreal pitlane in '08, chopping across Kamui Kobayashi at Spa in 2011 during a run of, by his standards, frustratingly below-par performances.

Off-track, he courts attention for the 'wrong' reasons. He's tweeted telemetry from a team briefing. He's sprayed champagne directly at a woman stood on the podium. There was the storm-in-a-teacup Snapchat furore last year in Japan and the subsequent walk-out of a press conference in response to negative coverage of his actions. He poses for pictures with his private jet and is obsessed with his bulldogs Roscoe and Coco.

Spot the trend - big or small, talking about Hamilton is a regular thing. But it means he has developed into the closest thing F1 has to a genuine global megastar, not just a superb driver. Like Senna, he is one of precious few to have transcended his sport. And the similarities with the man Hamilton has always proudly drawn inspiration from continue.

Both have had moments of public unprofessionalism - for Hamilton's 'cap toss' at Rosberg, or comments in the wake of Rosberg's retirement, there's Senna's candid criticism of the returning Alain Prost in the 1992 Portuguese GP press conference.

Senna understood the value his increased profile could bring to those less fortunate. His charitable efforts remain lauded, and the foundation set up in his honour months after his death continues to work on the behalf of underprivileged children in Brazil. Hamilton's support, both formal and informal, for the likes of UNICEF, Barnardo's and other charities also suggest a desire to use his star power for good.

But the strongest connection is both share an intense love of racing. Senna's 1992 outburst against Prost, or his defiance in the face of Sir Jackie Stewart's questions in the aftermath of Senna's clash with Prost in the '90 Japanese GP, was born from a fierce desire to be the best and to race purely. Hamilton's comments last year about F1's governance, outlined here by Glenn Freeman as part of a deeper consideration of Hamilton's growing maturity, came from the same hymn sheet.

Hamilton is usually the story, even to the point where the story is that he is the story. The greats are divisive and Hamilton, as he does in so many areas, ranks right up there with the best of them for that. It's the way some pick and choose the elements of his public persona to suit their argument, and use it as a stick with which to beat Hamilton, that is particularly grinding.

Hamilton's as important to his era as Senna was to his, or any of the true giants of racing have been. He 'gets it' when it comes to embracing fans, he isn't afraid to speak his mind (or make his own mistakes), and is not afraid to live the life he wants to. The shackles that seem to restrict the modern professional racing driver don't seem to apply to him.

In short, Hamilton is the driver most F1 fans say they want: a swashbuckling, he-who-dares talent behind the wheel, capable of being an outspoken, honest individual in front of the camera and a colourful character away from the track.

Yet he's an inhabitant of purgatory; recognised as a brilliant driving talent but often a poorly thought-of champion forever walking a tightrope over derision.

A small consolation is that the pointless irritations Hamilton provokes will, like they always do, eventually fade. The legacy he'll leave when that happens will be immense.

Hamilton's done more to be like Senna than he could ever have realistically hoped for, and this could be the year he surpasses him. What separates the two in the court of public opinion shouldn't be that one is still alive.

Missile

16-02-2017, 12:06 PM

Getting close now

2017 CAR LAUNCH SCHEDULE

February 20: Sauber C36, Online
February 21: Renault RS17, London
February 22: Force India VJM10, Silverstone
February 23: Mercedes W08, Silverstone
February 24: Ferrari, Fiorano
February 24: McLaren MCL32, Woking
February 26: Red Bull RB13, Online
February 26: Toro Rosso STR12, Barcelona

2017 WINTER TEST SCHEDULE

February 27-March 2: Circuit de Catalunya, Barcelona
March 7-10: Circuit de Catalunya, Barcelona

2017 F1 RACE CALENDAR - EVERY RACE LIVE ON SKY F1

March 26: Melbourne, Australia
April 9: Shanghai, China
April 16: Bahrain, Bahrain
April 30: Sochi, Russia
May 14: Barcelona, Spain
May 28: Monte Carlo, Monaco
June 11: Montreal, Canada
June 25: Baku, Azerbaijan
July 9: Spielberg, Austria
July 16: Silverstone, United Kingdom
July 30: Budapest, Hungary

August 27: Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium
September 3: Monza, Italy
September 17: Singapore, Singapore
October 1: Sepang, Malaysia
October 8: Suzuka, Japan
October 22: Austin, USA
October 29: Mexico City, Mexico
November 12: Sao Paolo, Brazil
November 26: Abu Dhabi, UAE

2017 IN-SEASON TEST SCHEDULE

April 18-19: Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain
August 1-2: Hungaroring, Hungary

2017 DRIVER LINE-UPS

MERCEDES
Race drivers: Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas
Engines: Mercedes

RED BULL
Race drivers: Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen
Reserve driver: Pierre Gasly
Engines: TAG Heuer-badged Renault

FERRARI
Race drivers: Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen
Third driver: Antonio Giovinazzi
Engines: Ferrari

FORCE INDIA
Race drivers: Sergio Perez and Esteban Ocon
Engines: Mercedes

WILLIAMS
Race drivers: Felipe Massa and Lance Stroll
Engines: Mercedes

MCLAREN
Race drivers: Fernando Alonso and Stoffel Vandoorne
Engines: Honda

TORO ROSSO
Race drivers: Carlos Sainz and Daniil Kvyat
Reserve driver: Pierre Gasly
Engines: Renault

HAAS
Race drivers: Romain Grosjean and Kevin Magnussen
Engines: Ferrari

RENAULT
Race drivers: Nico Hulkenberg and Jolyon Palmer
Engines: Renault

SAUBER
Race drivers: Marcus Ericsson and Pascal Wehrlein
Engines: Ferrari (2016 spec)

Brockas

16-02-2017, 12:07 PM

wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank.

tl;dr but saw Hamilton's name mentioned like 20 times, can only assume it's a dick-sucking Hamilton post.

2/10

dmanvan

17-02-2017, 08:09 PM

http://media3.speedcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Williams-FW40-2-640x503.png

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S17IKgn_V4

..

ELUSIV

18-02-2017, 09:19 PM

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/williams-fw40-rear.jpg

http://m.memegen.com/9sswse.jpg

summoner

19-02-2017, 10:56 AM

Low profile wings.. fat tyres.

oh lordy it's almost back to the beautiful days of the early 90's

The_Senator

20-02-2017, 11:37 AM

http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/formula-one/lewis-hamilton-doesnt-want-to-work-too-closely-with-valtteri-bottas/news-story/726e818b0973e1295d5f5a14bf16f425

I go out, do my laps, do all my homework — the other guy can see everything,” Hamilton said. “I don’t think they should do that. I have asked my team, I don’t want to see my teammate’s (data).
“I don’t feel it’s fair that he brings his A game and I should be able to study his A game on a computer.

Wrexter

20-02-2017, 11:48 AM

http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/formula-one/lewis-hamilton-doesnt-want-to-work-too-closely-with-valtteri-bottas/news-story/726e818b0973e1295d5f5a14bf16f425

I think its a fair call.

He did say however there are instances where data sharing is ok, between engineers, when one side of the garage takes the wrong setup approach.

20-02-2017, 01:21 PM

Yeah it's not an anti team approach, but if you remember back to say 2014 Rosberg would get coached mid race where Lewis was faster.. nigga

Kaido

20-02-2017, 03:51 PM

Anyone got an recommendation for grandstand location for Melbourne f1?

did the Prost/Senna grandstand like 4 years ago; is there any other good spots?

Kaido

20-02-2017, 05:55 PM

Sauber 2017
https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/amp/6OOww9J6/s6/f1-sauber-c36-launch-2017-sauber-c36.jpg

http://www.sauberf1team.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/CarC36_Side_WEB.jpg

http://www.sauberf1team.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/CarC36_Front_Low_WEB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sTiCL9a.jpg

ALEX.

20-02-2017, 06:04 PM

Holy shit. That actually looks amazing.

summoner

20-02-2017, 06:35 PM

Love how it looks Rothmansesque.. also thinking they might have William Hill sports betting sponsorship with that scheme.

djr81

20-02-2017, 07:35 PM

You reckon Sauber will have an actual sponsor?

anton

20-02-2017, 08:06 PM

could simply be a test livery

Greg Rust

20-02-2017, 08:15 PM

Loving the low wide rear wing.

hostage_85

20-02-2017, 08:27 PM

That thing looks awesome.

anton

21-02-2017, 12:49 AM

http://i.imgur.com/GXZ0Wvx.jpg

21-02-2017, 07:39 AM

Love how it looks Rothmansesque.. also thinking they might have William Hill sports betting sponsorship with that scheme.

Ligier 1996

http://motorsportm8.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/image128.png

Brockas

21-02-2017, 11:52 AM

The cars are looking so awesome, and from what I'm reading about Renault making a bit step forward with their engines I'm looking forward to RBR v Merc this year. 4 top drivers all going at it, yes please!

Sebdullah

21-02-2017, 03:37 PM

Reminds me I need to put some money on Dan for WDC

anton

21-02-2017, 11:29 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5MqGJSXUAAttEE.jpg:large

ELUSIV

22-02-2017, 12:23 AM

Well both cars so far have got some sweet livery!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5MpDSJXAAEBH38.jpg:large

22-02-2017, 08:45 AM

I don't rate that at all.

Wrexter

22-02-2017, 09:43 AM

To me, it looks better than the Sauber and the Williams.

Im most excited about what McLaren will be coming up with and someone mentioned apparently Torro Rosso will be going with a new livery this year.

Brockas

22-02-2017, 10:17 AM

The car itself looks great, the livery looks like a half and half between their 2015 car and their 2016 car.

Missile

22-02-2017, 10:17 AM

Reminds me I need to put some money on Dan for WDC

Currently $4.85

Wrexter

22-02-2017, 10:28 AM

Loving the look of the cars with the lower rear wing and fat tyres.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/A3_RS17_3Q_right_dark_studio.jpg

Brockas

22-02-2017, 11:03 AM

Same. I think the shape is the best we have seen since 2007.

22-02-2017, 11:16 AM

Kaido

22-02-2017, 11:20 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5MvzX3WYAA983P.jpg:large

http://www.autoblog.nl/gallery/0_Racing/Renault_RS17/Renault_R.S.17-11.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5M3XQlWIAAbgg4.jpg

summoner

22-02-2017, 12:03 PM

Ligier 1996

http://motorsportm8.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/image128.png

Bring back tobacco sponsorship!

anton

22-02-2017, 11:47 PM

http://i.imgur.com/ZkxRZO1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VWyD4yp.jpg

summoner

23-02-2017, 06:41 AM

Not a fan of just how much of a billboard the shark fin is on the SFI

Wrexter

23-02-2017, 12:30 PM

its pretty simple but definately good advertising real estate haha

Looks like the new McLaren will be Orange & White, also they website accent is now orange. Excited

23-02-2017, 01:22 PM

FI fin needs to be black

anton

23-02-2017, 07:54 PM

https://twitter.com/suttonimages/status/834723777493757953

Wrexter

23-02-2017, 08:14 PM

Best looking car so far!

Finally a nice nose! That back end is tight!

http://i66.tinypic.com/2dvr1b7.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5WMZgtWYAAfvk-.jpg

hostage_85

23-02-2017, 08:14 PM

A nice nose... but the Sauber still looks better I reckon

Wrexter

23-02-2017, 08:35 PM

bit of a piss weak launch though, shitty 360 camera with low resolution.

anton

23-02-2017, 09:25 PM

they are top of the field they need to hide as much as possiuble, but what depresses me is that apparently mercedes has made a large step in power

Wrexter

23-02-2017, 09:38 PM

No point reading too much in rumours until Qualifying in Australia!

Hoping Honda has made major gains but unfortunately I have ye little faith.

23-02-2017, 11:08 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5WllafWAAAeQgN.jpg

This is something new and interesting in terms of suspension arms

summoner

24-02-2017, 07:55 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5WllafWAAAeQgN.jpg

This is something new and interesting in terms of suspension arms

That's very different, wonder if anyone else has done similar or if it'll be a mad scramble to come up with 1 if it works.

Wrexter

24-02-2017, 10:07 AM

Did i read somewhere that Ferrari seeked clarification from the FIA on suspensions because they knew what Mercedes (and others) were up to, but didn't quite understand it.

If you cant copy it, get it banned :p

SimonR32

24-02-2017, 11:07 AM

Brockas

24-02-2017, 02:48 PM

http://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/sv/3.65/dir/0d6/image/0d6025d2da5e8353d8130ae2e7b85c77.jpg
God the cars look sooooo good.

24-02-2017, 03:13 PM

That Merc does seem to have a whole lot of floor showing at the back. Will be interesting if they can keep the engine temps under control with the bodywork that tight.

Anyone know anything about that front suspension arm, looks intriguing

From what I have read, it is to get the arms higher, whilst giving multiple geometry options. Big issue this year will be wear with the extra DF, so this is aiming to negate it.

djr81

24-02-2017, 04:48 PM

Ford called it slals when they put it on the Falcon in 1988. Good to see MB catching up.

apg39

24-02-2017, 05:06 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5azg5gWYAACm4w.png

Fezza, can't get their website pics to load.

Kaido

24-02-2017, 05:13 PM

http://f1tcdn.net/gallery/var/fullsizes/2017/ferrari-sf70h/ferrari-sf70h.png

those sidepods!

24-02-2017, 05:19 PM

Will look great battling for 10th

Kaido

24-02-2017, 05:23 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5a3AYcXEAAUg8f.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5a3PecWUAAr_5d.jpg

that undercut

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5a35e8WgAA1ezr.jpg

twin mounted rear wing

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5a24wCXQAAvnE1.jpg

ELUSIV

24-02-2017, 05:27 PM

T-wing, sidepods, lots of rake...wow please don't be shit Ferrari

http://i.imgur.com/MfDD21k.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NUirn0E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Dor1YSh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cFQOive.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Tt8QzTd.jpg

Gleeso

24-02-2017, 07:10 PM

Yesss, the MCL32 looks good.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5bPF67WcAAPVTl.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5bPG8hWcAAfxr4.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5bRT1AXMAIwcCT.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5bSpR4WMAE-DRt.jpg:orig

Wrexter

24-02-2017, 07:19 PM

I was hoping for more Orange on the McLaren but in saying that looks nice, i think it will look better on track! A good direction none the less, better than the the livery form the past couple of years since the Vodafone days of Chrome & Red.

anton

24-02-2017, 09:24 PM

that white swish hides so much it disorients your view

summoner

25-02-2017, 06:02 AM

I hope they went this orange just so spite Ron.. I can see him crying inside after his years of being so against using orange again.

summoner

25-02-2017, 05:53 PM

New Williams is underwhelming.

ELUSIV

25-02-2017, 06:32 PM

Vettel paying $15 for WDC atm, tempting to chuck in a bet with those odds.

apg39

26-02-2017, 07:02 AM

https://scontent.fmel2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16826064_2329931957145110_1951094232247505439_o.jp g?oh=9f9c520d57ce53f33827fb5fc173fd5a&oe=5971E5C7

Sneaky pre-launch HAAS pic.

Gleeso

26-02-2017, 08:45 PM

Similar side-pod concept as Ferrari, no surprise there. Looks aggressive.

Just saw the RBR launch, the car has virtually no aero on it, sneaky sneaky.

Wrexter

26-02-2017, 10:47 PM

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Screenshot-2017-02-26-12.15.27.png

Intriguing nose....

ELUSIV

26-02-2017, 11:20 PM

http://i64.tinypic.com/jhvr7o.png

It does look like RB as always keeping some of their final aero to themselves as overall quite simple in some areas. What's going on with that rear suspension??

anton

27-02-2017, 12:51 AM

http://i.imgur.com/AyldL9N.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fsyKuY6.jpg

https://i.redd.it/w24k0yctl8iy.png

S_E

27-02-2017, 06:43 AM

Torro Rosso livery looks seriously good, no silly finger nose going on either.

27-02-2017, 07:38 AM

Torro Rosso now have the best looking F1 car in the field.

SimonR32

27-02-2017, 09:53 AM

Torro Rosso now have the best looking F1 car in the field.

Hopefully will help Kvyat sleep at night haha

summoner

27-02-2017, 11:53 AM

In for Sainz getting a podium in this season

[FFOUR]

27-02-2017, 12:47 PM

Anyone know of a good stream which will show the testing in Barcelona?

Kaido

27-02-2017, 12:52 PM

;1312150']Anyone know of a good stream which will show the testing in Barcelona?

No live coverage of the test, only daily updates by sky "Sky Sports F1 - Paddock Uncut and Ted's Notebook". Just use sky or autosport for live text update

The_Senator

27-02-2017, 01:07 PM

RedBull already being accused of having "an illegal front nose that shows a clear violation of the design rules regarding front nose design". This pertains to the duct on the front nose exceeding the regulations

- Gary Anderson (Ex Jordan F1 designer)

27-02-2017, 04:15 PM

https://www.autosport.com/live/commentary/id/2507471/formula-1-testing-2017-barcelona-f1-test-day-one

Season officially underway!

Kaido

27-02-2017, 05:10 PM

http://img.f1today.eu/x/full/photos/58b3eb4a231fbb371dedb32a5962e1d690e874821dae5.jpg

27-02-2017, 05:34 PM

McLaren was the first to break.

#neverchangeforron

Wrexter

27-02-2017, 08:04 PM

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/836175672259260420

dmanvan

27-02-2017, 08:27 PM

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/836175672259260420

is it just my eyes playing tricks... or is there way more aero body porn this year......

scroll down some of the images on this lot..... oooohhh myyyyyyyyyyyyy

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech

:rolleyes:

anton

27-02-2017, 09:10 PM

well RBR can easily close or modity the nose to suit better to ask for forgiveness than permission

http://imgur.com/a/CFnvn testing album

summoner

28-02-2017, 07:12 AM

can cash out now and make 7c profit on my bet for ferrari WCC

Ballin

28-02-2017, 09:43 AM

McLaren, 29 laps.

sigh

The_Senator

28-02-2017, 09:49 AM

Mercedes fastest......again *sign*

Wrexter

28-02-2017, 10:26 AM

McLaren, 29 laps.

sigh

I was dissapointed that they only had 1 laps complete with 2 hours of testing remaining.

However i was pleasantly suprised that at least they got going and got 29 laps in by days end (unlike last year).

Hopefully it was only a minor issue and they get some solid Mileage today.

Honda really need another team to run their engine if they want to challenge Mercedes/Ferrari/Renault.

Wrexter

28-02-2017, 10:30 AM

From this angle the McLaren looks sexy AF.

Alonso's testing helmet is boss.

http://i.imgur.com/CgaHUrf.jpg

Kaido

28-02-2017, 11:22 AM

ted note book from day 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx6HDIYFp3k

28-02-2017, 04:10 PM

The Mclaren has broken down on its out lap....

Fucking hell

summoner

28-02-2017, 05:54 PM

The Mclaren has broken down on its out lap....

Fucking hell

Such a pile of shit.

RIP McLaren, they'll be fighting with Sauber for wooden spoon at this rate.

anton

28-02-2017, 11:05 PM

Skitzo

01-03-2017, 05:56 AM

At least McLaren's Road cars are bombed.

summoner

01-03-2017, 06:23 AM

they need redbulls chassis dyno setup, to iron out PU issues before they go to test. its a shame because mclarens rear wing end plates are totally out there wouldnt be surprised if other teams are looking at them

http://ticker.auto-motor-und-sport.de/media/2/0/466/076ec/esteban-ocon-force-india-formel-1-test-barcelona-28-februar-2017-fotoshowbig-a0795b8e-1009781.thumb_www.jpg

Could just go to AVL in Graz where RBR were going secretly few years ago and STR were going but got caught. Oma's neighbour used to ferry the RBR/STR people around when they were in town.

01-03-2017, 07:59 AM

Coming into 2017, all the talk has been of whether Red Bull can build on the genuine momentum it gathered last season and utilise the aerodynamic potential offered by the new regulations to properly challenge Mercedes for the Formula 1 title.

Ferrari has not exactly been an afterthought - the grandest and richest team in F1 could never be that - but there hasn't exactly been a swell of expectation that the Prancing Horse is going to be the one galloping through Mercedes' prize orchard and snaffling its best apples.

That's understandable. Ferrari took a significant step backwards last season, after the promising mini-revival of 2015, when its much improved engine powered Sebastian Vettel to three opportunist race wins, unravelled.

Last year's SF16-H was meant to be the car that carried Ferrari back to the top. Company president Sergio Marchionne pretty well declared as much. Italy expected, but Ferrari didn't deliver. The car was inconsistent, results were too. Ferrari failed to make progress, seemed to crack under the pressure of expectation, made mistakes, threw away chances. Star technical director James Allison fell out with his bosses and left the team mid-season.

It very much looked as though Ferrari might descend into a recreation of a dark past, where chaos reigned and scapegoats lay strewn across the corridors of Maranello. Further darkening the mood, Ferrari has seemingly withdrawn into a skulking silence since - saying very little publicly at the launch of its new car last week; saying nothing publicly so far about the performance of that car in pre-season testing.

After the embarrassment of failing to deliver on last season's bold predictions, the message from on high this time around appears to follow the opposite approach - say nothing, keep schtum; don't talk a good game, play one instead.

The very early signs suggest Ferrari is reaping the benefits of that new focus. It appears to have begun the 2017 pre-season strongly - far from a team embroiled in crisis and shambles.

Sebastian Vettel lapped only 0.113 seconds shy of Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes on day one of pre-season testing at Barcelona's Catalunya circuit, despite running only medium compound Pirellis compared to Hamilton's softs, before team-mate Kimi Raikkonen managed to beat Hamilton to top spot on day two, trumping the Mercedes' 1m20.983s super-soft best with 0.023s using soft tyres.

Ferrari has been right on Mercedes' pace so far, despite using harder tyres than its rival. OK, it's only testing, only the first week of testing in fact, and those who are easily excited should remember that Ferrari has topped the timesheets on three of four days at each of the opening pre-season tests of the past two seasons, yet come nowhere near mounting a serious challenge to Mercedes' hegemony.

But some of those previous test-topping efforts, particularly last season, involved bolting on much softer tyres than Mercedes used. This time, Ferrari seems more methodical in its approach, and certainly doesn't seem interested in the false idol of morale boosting glory runs to appease senior management. What's more, the car looks genuinely impressive out on the circuit.

"You don't know the fuel loads everyone is running, and out on the track what gives you an indication of that is how the car accelerates off the corners, but it didn't look that lively so I don't think it was running on the sniff of an oily rag," reckons Autosport technical consultant Gary Anderson. "I would assume they were running 50-80kg of fuel in the car - that's where you would normally test at.

"For me the Ferrari looked consistent, it was doing the same thing all the time. Obviously the lap times show it was pretty quick, it was on the soft tyre and close to Hamilton's time. OK, Hamilton's time was on the super-soft, but it would have been pretty similar for him on the soft, because Hamilton screwed up the last section of the lap.

"Lewis tried to do a better lap time on the softs and the super-softs, and it didn't work out for him, so it's not as though Mercedes is sandbagging. On the super-softs he probably should have done a 1m20.2s or 1m20.3s lap, and on the softs he should have matched his 1m20.9s best.

"Hamilton may go out tomorrow and do a 1m18.9s, but Vettel might do an 18.8. Time will tell, but as we're going through the stages the Ferrari out on track looks quite good.

"The Mercedes on that long run Bottas did looked nothing special - it went away from him fairly quickly and he had a lot of understeer to start with, and some oversteer later. He really had to drive it.

"All you can do is compare like-for-like, and the Ferrari and Mercedes don't look miles apart. But the most important thing is the Ferrari didn't change lines, it was doing the same thing through a run, which is a very good baseline."

The general feeling is that Ferrari has produced a strong car out of the box, with particular attention paid to the design of its bargeboards, sidepods and floor. Early indications are that this focus has paid off, giving the SF70H a great deal of aerodynamic stability and decent downforce. The car has also looked particularly strong under braking, an area in which supplier Brembo has paid particular focus coming into this year.

Ferrari has also paid attention to details, beefing up a gearbox design that proved unreliable in 2016, while new technical director Mattia Binotto is hoping an organisational revamp within Maranello will improve Ferrari's pace and consistency of development during the expected arms race to come.

With the basic aero concept seemingly working well, attention should shift towards refining parts of the car that still resemble last year's design more closely - such as the nose and front wing.

"The way you develop a car is a bit of a strange way around," explains Anderson. "Basically, the rear of the car makes it work, and actually that flow structure makes the front wing work.

"You get the rear of the car into a basic condition that's reasonable, then start with the front wing, wash that through to the bargeboards, the leading edge of the sidepods, and floor.

"But you've got to be careful if you've got the bargeboard concept Ferrari has, because that's operating around an airflow regime that's coming off that front wing. So if they do anything dramatic to the front of the car they could easily screw up the part of the car is actually the most complicated but seems to be functioning correctly.

"If I was looking at the Ferrari and saying, 'What areas are developable?' - areas that won't affect the main focus I've had so far, which is that bargeboard area - I'd be going for the diffuser.

"It's relatively naive beside what Mercedes has. The diffuser is something you can get a pretty good run at with someone else's design, because the airflow coming off it you don't care about - you're leaving it behind, whereas the front wing your car has to deal with, so taking a Mercedes front wing and putting it on a Ferrari could cause you great grief.

"The Ferrari bargeboard package is built around a different front wing concept to Mercedes, but all you can do is look around Barcelona, which is a very aerodynamic track, and it seems to be functioning to a pretty good and consistent level. We've had a lot of wind today and it doesn't seem to be dramatically affected."

So could this be the start of something big for Ferrari - a genuine revival after a stuttering season of mixed results and internal recriminations? Or is this just more of the same - false hope; another false dawn for a team that has consistently flattered to deceive in pre-season testing in recent years?

"Ferrari spent a lot of time here on the medium tyre, which is a good tyre to get your car sorted out on," adds Anderson. "Last year it threw itself a lot, because it kept on firing on soft tyres and super-soft tyres and ultra-soft tyres, and at some point in time within the team people start to believe the lap times you're doing - and they're not really true.

"I think Ferrari as a team this year is doing a much more professional job than it's done in the past. It's not got frustrated with the car, it's stuck to a plan of focusing on the right tyre to get the car sorted out, which is the medium, and the Ferrari seems to respond quite well going from the medium to the soft.

"Before Ferrari always tried to be quick, but this test it isn't necessarily trying to be quick; it's just trying to do the job.

"I like what I see with the Ferrari, but is it game on? Who knows..."

If Ferrari can get itself properly back into the game this year, it will be great news for F1.

tex

01-03-2017, 11:49 AM

Ted's notebook day 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz6FB-buuRQ

anton

01-03-2017, 09:05 PM

http://i.imgur.com/bIiSVF2.png

02-03-2017, 07:54 AM

This is a big season for McLaren-Honda. Two years into the troubled return of this famous Formula 1 alliance, it is high time it started consistently delivering the performance and results to suggest it can carry the fight to the championship's established big guns.

Honda has now spent two full seasons learning the intricacies of F1's mightily complex V6 hybrid turbo engine formula on track. It has not been an easy education. Its engines have lacked power, efficiency, reliability. But, they have been gradually improving.

As has McLaren. This proud winning team lost its way badly in 2013, and has been struggling to recover since. But again, there have been signs of improvement - infrastructural change, different working methods for conceiving and developing its cars, a feeling things are generally moving in a positive direction.

And yet the more things change the more they seem to stay the same.

On McLaren-Honda Mk2's very first track outing, at the post-season test in Abu Dhabi in 2014, electrical problems meant the mule car failed to complete a single flying lap.

A few months later, at the first pre-season test of 2015 at Jerez, McLaren-Honda completed just 79 laps across four days thanks to a glut of further engine problems - with sensors, electrical systems, the cooling systems, the oil systems. It was pretty much an unmitigated disaster.

Reliability was much improved in time for the first test of 2016 at Barcelona's Catalunya circuit. Honda produced a much more efficient and effective ERS system based on the lessons of 2015, but the overall performance of the engine was still disappointing, and that continued through the season.

One year further down the line, McLaren-Honda arrived at Barcelona with expectations of having a chassis that can rival the best teams on the grid - Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari - mated to a redesigned engine that is supposed to be able to at least match the level Mercedes' reached by the end of 2016, which is reckoned to be about 80bhp up on where Honda got to last year with its power unit.

The talk has been of renewal - new regulations, new car, new name for the car, new livery, new engine, new management. A clean break with the past. Time to get serious.

But three days into pre-season testing, it already looks as though McLaren-Honda is struggling.

The first two days were pretty much written off by engine problems. A fault with Honda's oil tank design lost Fernando Alonso his first morning in the car, requiring an engine change and the shipping of the faulty unit back to Japan for analysis, before Stoffel Vandoorne suffered a significant combustion engine failure on Tuesday.

Two days down, two engines down, only 69 laps on the board. And not even a proper run among them, according to Vandoorne.

Honda's ongoing investigations will reveal whether these problems are mere niggling glitches, such as those that befell Red Bull-Renault early on day one in Spain, or something more serious.

Like all manufacturers at the first pre-season test, Honda has been running its new power unit in a detuned state. But if Honda has to rethink its oil tank design, or discovers serious flaws in the new pre-chamber ignition technology it knows it needs to perfect in order to challenge the top manufacturers, that could have serious knock-on consequences when it comes to extracting further performance, with an updated Melbourne-specification of the engine due to arrive for next week's second test.

Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault are likely to stretch further away when they start turning up their new engines, especially if Honda is unable to do the same for fear of further failures.

This is probably why Honda's F1 engine chief Yusuke Hasegawa reckons it is "especially" important to find the root cause of Tuesday's combustion engine failure in particular, even though the team played down the likely impact of this week's problems on McLaren-Honda's ultimate development plan.

"We have many issues," admits McLaren-Honda racing director Eric Boullier. "None of them are fundamental. [On Wednesday] finally we can run, so we have some usual glitches - the ones you get on day one [normally] - but obviously we have them on day three.

"It is a new layout of the engine from Honda and obviously some unexpected glitches, but nothing is fundamental."

Day three was certainly better, with Alonso completing three more laps of Barcelona than McLaren-Honda managed across the previous two days combined. But as Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull filled the top three places on the timesheets, Alonso languished in 10th, almost three seconds off the pace.

What's more, the car did not look particularly impressive when it was circulating.

"I was concentrating on Turns 1, 2 and 3," says Autosport's technical consultant Gary Anderson. "It's a complex, so if you get Turn 1 right then Turn 2 becomes easier, which in turn makes Turn 3 easier.

"The Ferrari, for me, is without doubt the most stable car - millimetre precise and never really seeming to change line. You wouldn't know if it had five-lap old tyres or 25-lap old tyres on it, and it's good on both the soft and the medium compound.

"The Mercedes looks pretty reasonable on the soft tyres - still moving and with more understeer than the Ferrari - but not so good on the medium tyre, just no grip.

"Through that complex, the McLaren never looked good. Alonso couldn't get hard on the throttle out of Turn 2 - the car just starts moving - and I never saw him go into Turn 3 flat on the throttle.

"He's either having to lift big time beforehand, or just as he's coming into the corner. It's not understeer, just a lack of grip.

"McLaren can't really complain about Honda's engine, because there are still horses left in there that they're not using at the minute. It looks OK on the very softest tyres, but on softs and mediums - the most relevant tyres for this track - it's just not there."

McLaren's issues are not confined to the first complex, either.

"Up at Turn 9, the same thing," Anderson adds. "The Ferrari can commit properly on the way in, with barely a lift off the throttle. The McLaren can't do that. Obviously I don't know what the fuel loads are, but if Alonso doesn't lift and slow the car down on the way into the corner significantly, it won't go round properly. It doesn't look like it's got a horrendous balance problem, but it does look like it's got a grip problem.

"The Sauber is not a good chassis - that's one end of the scale. The Ferrari is at the other end of the scale. At the very best the McLaren is in the middle - and that would be giving it a pat on the back.

"I don't know how many McLaren people have been around the track, but I've been around it a few times, and I've never seen a McLaren driver able to commit. It's visible in both sound and vision."

McLaren is effectively two days behind its major rivals in terms of understanding its new package, thanks to those earlier engine problems. Disregarding Alonso's 'headline' time on ultra-softs on Wednesday, the McLaren lapped in 1m23.8s on the soft compound, which is around two seconds slower than Mercedes and Ferrari managed on day one, and just under a second shy of where Red Bull got to after its disrupted first morning.

Anyway you slice it, there is still some serious work to do - with both the chassis and the engine.

"Even the perfect car, when you push to the limit you will always have understeer, oversteer, or something like this," argues Boullier. "But both drivers don't complain, and feel that the base of the chassis is good, so we can develop around this.

"There will be a high development rate, especially for the beginning of the season. I expect most of the teams to bring nearly a new car in Australia."

But can we realistically expect a big shift in the right direction for McLaren-Honda's fortunes? A slow start seems more likely.

Honda still seems to be struggling to get properly on top of this engine formula, which must be putting a strain on intra-team relations, even though they have yet to descend to the level of public recrimination we witnessed between Red Bull and Renault in 2015.

Alonso has put a brave face on things in public too, but quietly he must be seething at the thought of potentially seeing his three-year stint with McLaren-Honda go to waste in uncompetitive machinery.

The more time passes, the more McLaren's decision to give up Mercedes customer power for this works partnership with Honda looks like a big mistake. At least with a Mercedes engine in the back, we would know for sure how capable the McLaren chassis really is.

Now a McLaren-Honda reserve and ambassador, Jenson Button knows what it's like to jump into a brand new car, developed for a major rules overhaul, and feel from the earliest laps of pre-season testing that he's onto a winner. It's highly doubtful Alonso and Vandoorne have felt anything close to that sensation in Barcelona this week.

The McLaren-Honda project feels like Groundhog Day - valiant attempts at doing things differently that ultimately seem to lead back to the same starting point.

At some point, serious questions will have to be asked internally about whether this troubled partnership is truly a sustainable proposition. Honda has been successful in F1 before, but during an era when it lacked credible opposition. That is certainly not the case today.

Honda hasn't been truly competitive in Formula 1 since the early '90s; McLaren hasn't been truly competitive in Formula 1 since 2012. The longer this elongated mutual drought of success continues, the more danger there is of both organisations suffering irrevocable damage.

Perhaps all will be well in the end. Perhaps more track time and development and set-up work will bring the MCL32 to life. Perhaps Honda will fix its early problems, turn up its new engine, and finally prove itself to be a serious player in Formula 1's V6 era.

Or perhaps not. In which case the writing could be well and truly on the wall for the McLaren-Honda dream.

tex

02-03-2017, 10:36 AM

Ted's notebook v3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDfdCKNtzj0

03-03-2017, 09:42 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C55ePkoWYAAiuE6.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C55bgFXXEAAXuxw.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C55aGDvXEAAAH65.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C55ae4mWQAASrRp.jpg:large

03-03-2017, 09:59 AM

summoner

03-03-2017, 11:16 AM

As good as all this testing is.. hurry up and give us proper racing! :(

07-03-2017, 07:49 AM

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128383/honda-parts-company-with-gilles-simon

oooops

kris

07-03-2017, 09:28 AM

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128383/honda-parts-company-with-gilles-simon

oooops

hmmm, this is interesting. I wonder if his influences were constantly creating a folk in the road, and now that he's finishing up, Honda can get on with changes.
It's like the team of champions vs a champion team argument. Too many big players cause conflict and indecision. Hopefully it's a good thing.

anton

07-03-2017, 10:07 AM

Mclaren not on a roll
https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/here-s-the-mclaren-720s-dominating-the-geneva-floor-115942_1.jpg

07-03-2017, 10:11 AM

hmmm, this is interesting. I wonder if his influences were constantly creating a folk in the road, and now that he's finishing up, Honda can get on with changes.
It's like the team of champions vs a champion team argument. Too many big players cause conflict and indecision. Hopefully it's a good thing.

Or without him they remain woeful

summoner

07-03-2017, 12:49 PM

Thank fuck it's Tuesday so there's more testing happening!

Season can't start soon enough.

08-03-2017, 07:52 AM

McLaren woeful again

Williams show their hand and it looks decent.

summoner

08-03-2017, 09:15 AM

Alonso going to just walk out half way through this season and say fuck it.
Then come back with someone else for 2018.

09-03-2017, 07:41 AM

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128416/alonso-honda-has-no-power-no-reliability

Oh dear.

09-03-2017, 07:47 AM

For much of pre-season testing so far Red Bull-Renault has flown under the radar, logging a decent but not spectacular number of laps, and setting a decent but not particularly spectacular pace.

Other than a couple of niggly problems with the new Renault engine on day one at Barcelona last week, and a subsequent exhaust issue on day three, Red Bull enjoyed a relatively trouble-free first test.

The mood inside the team seemed one of quiet confidence - the RB13 looks a decent car and the Renault engine is felt to be a decent step forward. Those early niggles were not expected to be life-threatening, and team boss Christian Horner said he was impressed by the work Renault did over the winter.

Sure, Mercedes and Ferrari completed way more laps, and set faster lap times, but as Daniel Ricciardo pointed out, Red Bull never expects to do 150 laps per day like Mercedes often does. Red Bull never tries to "win the winter world championship", as Horner puts it.

But when you look across the full spread of Renault-engined teams, things have not exactly run smoothly so far. At some point there have been engine problems on all three Renault-powered cars, all serious enough to require time-consuming engine changes.

Red Bull suffered on day one; Toro Rosso lost all of day four; the works Renault team changed engines on the last day of the first test, and again on the first day of the second test.

That has to be cause for concern.

Sure, this is nothing like the unmitigated disaster going on at McLaren-Honda, but it is troubling nonetheless. One Renault insider even admitted Honda's woes were helping take the focus away from the French manufacturer's own troubles.

These troubles reared their ugly head in a significant way on day six of testing at the Barcelona circuit.

Max Verstappen completed 102 laps for Red Bull - the first time the RB13 has clocked more than a ton on a single day of pre-season testing so far in 2017.

But the Dutchman suffered an MGU-K problem in the morning, which required Red Bull to change the engine during the lunchbreak. Verstappen eventually returned to the track in the afternoon to attempt a Renault-powered car's first full race simulation. All appeared to be going well, until the car broke down again - "two laps short of a race distance" Verstappen reckoned.

Autosport understands Red Bull's recurring day six problem relates to the insulation on the MGU-K unit in the ERS, for which Renault has introduced an all-new design this year as part of a major overhaul of the entire power unit, in conjunction with technical partner Infiniti.

As it stands, the feeling inside Red Bull is that Renault faces no fundamental design flaws - that it knows it can fix these glitches in time for the first race in Australia. This is not 2014, when the Renault engine was blowing up for fun, or '15, when Red Bull and Renault fell out publicly over a serious lack of performance.

But Red Bull also felt confident it could do a race distance before Verstappen's car ground to a halt...

"I always stay very positive and try not to think about it too much," said Verstappen when asked if he was worried by these Renault failures. "That's what testing is for: to challenge all the parts, and to see how good they are and where you can improve."

But the aim is for those parts not to fail under the strain. Mercedes-powered teams have racked up 1865 laps over six days of testing so far; Ferrari teams 1764 (including Sauber with the 2016 unit); the Renault teams only 1299.

Red Bull's sister squad Toro Rosso arguably endured a worse first week of testing than the much-maligned McLaren-Honda outfit - logging 25 fewer laps across the first four days of pre-season running.

The second week has started better for STR, but there is concern at needing to run the engine in a detuned state to protect reliability. On top of this, the team is also battling its own problems on the chassis side.

"There's always something, either with the hydraulics or with the engine that is stopping us," explains Carlos Sainz Jr, who said he was "definitely" concerned by the new Renault engine's fragility. "A lot more minor issues compared to last week, that were just engine failures.

"It's something Renault is working on, on the reliability side. You can imagine in four days [between tests] there is not much you can change inside a Formula 1 engine, but they have adapted to the issues correctly, they have come in with precautionary solutions for this week of testing, to allow us to cover our programme.

"It's better for us, for all of us, but it's still the main point where they need to focus for sure."

Sainz says Toro Rosso must also shoulder a degree of blame for the problems it has faced so far, and reckons the lack of understanding it has of the potential of its new car is likely to prove more of a hindrance to the team's chances in Melbourne than any potential gremlins left in the Renault power unit.

"On Toro Rosso's side we are also having some problems - it's not all Renault's fault," he adds. "The positive thing is that we are doing a lot more laps than in the previous test, so today we could get into a rhythm a bit.

"In my opinion, the main concern for Australia is still not the reliability, it's that we can still do the rest of the huge amount of things that there are still to test on the car before Australia, and that we arrive to Australia prepared.

"On the Renault side, it doesn't depend on us, it's just pure luck if it works or not, if it breaks down or not. It's not our main worry - we need to focus on developing the car that we've created for 2017, and at the moment we still have a lot of catch-up to do."

As does the works Renault team, which lost Tuesday morning's running to a precautionary engine swap, and had to interrupt Jolyon Palmer's planned Wednesday afternoon race simulation thanks to what he described as a "persistent hydraulics issue".

He said this was not related to the engine, but Palmer reckons the power unit problems that have surfaced are to be expected given the extent of Renault's winter overhaul.

"We kind of expected we'd have some issues, but also the performance is improved compared to the other teams," he argues. "At the moment we're taking a little bit of pain, but hopefully in a few races' time we can get the reliability sorted and we can get more performance.

"I'm still happy Renault have done this because where we were last year with the engine, the potential was limited to a certain point. The reason we've taken a step back in terms of reliability is because the potential is a lot more.

"Obviously it's not been ideal, the reliability, but you kind of have to take one step back to take a few forward."

But that logic can only carry Renault so far. Mercedes and Ferrari seem to have made steps in performance without introducing so many fresh reliability worries, and their teams are able to log huge numbers of laps as a result, gathering all the valuable data and extra understanding of new cars, built to new rules, that extra reliability brings.

McLaren-Honda has taken a big step backwards because it cannot extract any extra performance from its new engine without suffering a catastrophic failure. Renault is nowhere near that level of disaster, but these niggling and persistent reliability problems are bound to be limiting the current potential of its new design.

So Red Bull and the other Renault-powered teams are stuck in a holding pattern - waiting for the manufacturer to deliver the fixes that will allow them to properly discover how fast their new cars can really go.

At the moment it feels like it could go either way, but Red Bull seems confident Renault understands the problems and will be able to fix them in time.

Its title chances rest on that faith not turning out to be misplaced.

summoner

09-03-2017, 07:37 PM

McLaren broken down again.. lol.

anton

09-03-2017, 08:35 PM

McLaren broken down again.. lol.

https://twitter.com/raddie_cz/status/839806527326289923

10-03-2017, 07:40 PM

Kimi just went 1.18.6!

anton

10-03-2017, 09:22 PM

https://hasmclarenbrokendown.com/

this site will be popular this year

11-03-2017, 12:13 AM

John Surtees passed away :(

ELUSIV

11-03-2017, 10:32 AM

McHonda:

http://i.imgur.com/HoUVQyf.jpg

12-03-2017, 01:30 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/10/ferrari-formula-one-liberty-media-john-malone-stock

summoner

13-03-2017, 12:55 PM

ELUSIV

13-03-2017, 06:33 PM

James Allen and it seems all the bookies have jumped on the Ferrari hype train..

They can all bugger off.. trains full! Don't need fair weather supporters.. had enough of those muppets back when RBR was doing well. Can't they stick to rubbing Hamiltons nuts instead?

Still I could cash out and use profits on maybe a pint in the city.

I'm split, on one hand I do want to see Vettel win as I am a fan of his, but I want Dan to win it more.
And I got my bet in early when Vettel's odds were pretty nuts so choo choo, Ferrari ftw!

spookware

13-03-2017, 10:31 PM

It's literally "whoever finds enough loopholes to invest more than what's allowed to engineer a car that sets the best laptime in qualifying wins". The tracks and car have been neutered to the point where the only risk involved is fucking Verstappen. Also, the current tire game is pants on head retarded.

summoner

14-03-2017, 05:27 PM

I'm split, on one hand I do want to see Vettel win as I am a fan of his, but I want Dan to win it more.
And I got my bet in early when Vettel's odds were pretty nuts so choo choo, Ferrari ftw!

I'm in the same boat.. Want RBR to win preferably with Dan but been a Vettel supporter since Formula ADAC and Kimi's just fun. Not to mention Ferrari has had Lauda win championships for them and had Berger racing there too.. so I like to see them up there.

RBR/Ferrari fighting for wins with Bottas flying MGP flag and Hamilton off somewhere else.

14-03-2017, 05:35 PM

#teamlh

summoner

14-03-2017, 07:10 PM

#teamlh

wrexter still jerking him off?

14-03-2017, 08:36 PM

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128499/force-india-reveals-pink-livery-for-2017

Pink!

summoner

15-03-2017, 09:45 AM

I like it, brings a nice change of colour to the sport which it hasn't seen in a long time.

Plus I always like seeing more Austrian involvement

15-03-2017, 10:17 AM

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/2017-preseason-analysis/

prepare to have your mind blown if you are a nerd

16-03-2017, 07:48 AM

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128508/adelaide-interested-in-f1-return

Wrexter

16-03-2017, 02:31 PM

wrexter still jerking him off?

Not as much as you jerk off finger boy....

summoner

16-03-2017, 02:42 PM

Not as much as you jerk off finger boy....

hahaha there it is!

I missed our little fun banter on here. At least this season it might be even handed with the performances.

Sebdullah

16-03-2017, 04:34 PM

it appears Foxtel are running F1 week on 506 from the night of monday the 20th

16-03-2017, 05:41 PM

yup week of f1, gooooooooot

16-03-2017, 05:42 PM

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128523/lowe-starts-work-at-williams

I hope Paddy does good things for them.

#makewilliamsgreatagain

Wrexter

16-03-2017, 09:15 PM

hahaha there it is!

I missed our little fun banter on here. At least this season it might be even handed with the performances.

:cool:

In other news McLaren considering ditching Honda and being a Mercedes Customer team.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128530/mclaren-sounds-out-mercedes-on-engines

Hard to believe how hard Honda has failed at delivering a reliable and competetive engine. It would of been a great success story but i think this is needed. I cant see Honda turning things around for a while, they are on a decline, unlike Ferrari and Rentault who have improved greatly.

dmanvan

16-03-2017, 10:22 PM

for those that struggle to put the times (or even remember times from one year to the next........)...

this is for those of us that are DVD"s (ie a bit dyslexic....)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io00mlLdRTM

thats a great decrease in time....

and for comparo 15 - 16 was definitely not as pronounced....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU1vGNxIgmo

tracks are different but I couldnt be assed trying to find exact same track for 3 years.:rolleyes:

owen1r

17-03-2017, 02:12 PM

Without wanting to start a new thread, any of you been to the Malaysia GP in the past and can recommend it? Looking at heading there this year, seems like a cheaper alternative to singapore.

BASSULA

17-03-2017, 03:07 PM

Is much cheaper.. is a bit DITB to get there and back.. but is definately cheaper and a better view than SG.

I'll be heading again this year I think is the 4th year running!

owen1r

17-03-2017, 03:59 PM

Any recommendations on an area to stay in? Don't want it to be too painful getting in and out.

17-03-2017, 04:29 PM

Stay in KL - you would rather aids than staying at the airport.

On race day in and out are a pain in the ass but it is what it is.

Can monorail/train/bus it out there, but its like $30 AUD to get a driver back, well worth it.

owen1r

17-03-2017, 04:35 PM

No chance I'm mixing with bus peasants for the expense of $30.

KL seems to be the go then. Plan to go over a few days before and check out the nightlife etc.

If any other of the antilag crowd is heading over wouldn't mind catching up for a beer.

17-03-2017, 04:45 PM

Zouk for the win club wise.

Depending which hotel you stay at, they may organise you a driver for the entire lot.

Funnily enough, the mono/train/bus wasn't actually half bad, a good way to experience some sights and sounds.

hako

17-03-2017, 06:47 PM

Is a completely different vibe to SG imo, but it is amazing value. Flights, accomm and F1 ticket can be had for sub 1k.

Probably 25-30% the cost of Singapore once done and dusted. Definitely stay in KL, ParkRoyal or Traders etc.

POH73

17-03-2017, 08:06 PM

Have been to KL for the last 3 years, definitely stay in the city. Last year we had 5 or 6 of us and hired a minivan, and it was all very easy. View is great, not too many people on Fri or Saturday so you're free to move around and check out some other areas.
The only downside was it's a bit out of town (it didn't bother us) and there is little other on track action compared to say, Melbourne which is probably the best spectacle of all GPs.

Pics from pit straight, Ruby tickets I think?

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/Paul_OH/F1%20Sepang%202014/IMG_5511_zps18459c39.jpg

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/Paul_OH/F1%20Sepang%202014/IMG_5356_zps2bfeb74c.jpg

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/Paul_OH/F1%20Sepang%202014/IMG_6131_zpsb320541b.jpg

summoner

18-03-2017, 09:47 AM

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yxeTeK3t2hAJ:https://twitter.com/mclarenf1/status/842710380287856645+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

McLaren trolling Honda.. then deleting it.. fortunately the internet never forgets.

20-03-2017, 08:20 AM

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4d/5c/59/4d5c592c692d8a863d310f24a3c9d369.jpg

Honda have sent a shipment of engines to Aus - one lap per engine for a race distance

20-03-2017, 08:25 AM

https://i.imgur.com/8f3ApBO.png

https://i.imgur.com/OMqDjgK.png

https://i.imgur.com/TnTXBj9.png

F1 week!

Wrexter

20-03-2017, 03:19 PM

Wish i was going :(

crabman

20-03-2017, 03:57 PM

Me too, damn roster change has me miss Melb and Sing.

ALEX.

20-03-2017, 05:43 PM

Can't wait to see what this year's changes truely have on the cars and drivers in racing conditions. Testing is testing.

Have just purchased from https://www.sunfrog.com/115309798-464142528.html?77145
(https://www.sunfrog.com/115309798-464142528.html?77145)
http://i66.tinypic.com/qsrqj5.jpg

21-03-2017, 02:00 PM

http://www.autosport.com/f1/2017/teams-drivers

Felipotato Massa

summoner

22-03-2017, 11:55 AM

Hamilton said he won't do a schoey... guess it means he just won't be allowed to share the podium with Dan this season.

22-03-2017, 01:56 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7eLi-7W4AAIIQr.jpg:large

anton

22-03-2017, 06:20 PM

Hamilton said he won't do a schoey... guess it means he just won't be allowed to share the podium with Dan this season.

dan will have to win again first. i think thats what he said was his condition now was a WIN

wow they seem smaller on TV

https://i.imgur.com/qTQ7SM1.jpg

Adr3naL1N

23-03-2017, 08:48 AM

getting excited, finding it hard to focus at work today, flying out tomorrow!!

Friday night footy at the G followed by a weekend of F1!! YESS!!!

23-03-2017, 09:06 AM

https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Impressionen-Formel-1-GP-Australien-Melbourne-20-Maerz-2017-fotoshowBig-acec1b4c-1059725.jpg

23-03-2017, 02:58 PM

Weeeeeeeeeeeee

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vLoI_UXkcS4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P2xfWHONOz0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

23-03-2017, 02:58 PM

https://i.imgur.com/qTQ7SM1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mo1DC1e.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ScWvO4s.jpg

scary

23-03-2017, 04:00 PM

24-03-2017, 09:16 AM

Season has begun!

24-03-2017, 09:17 AM

The McLaren gearchanges sounded very harsh through Turn 11/12. Something is clunking heavily in the gearbox.

9 minutes into the season :(

summoner

24-03-2017, 09:36 AM

9 minutes into the season :(

I'm surprised....

that it lasted 9 minutes.

summoner

24-03-2017, 10:22 AM

Gripe.. forgot ipad at home so can't stream foxtel.. no worries i'll just use live timing on their website..

"must be logged in to view"... i am logged in you POS.. i even clicked the link "join live session" from my account page..

*sigh*

SimonR32

24-03-2017, 10:46 AM

24-03-2017, 10:53 AM

Liberty media has failed us again

summoner

24-03-2017, 10:58 AM

Liberty media has failed us again

Having a sale on Pitchforks! Come folks 1 and all! great prices!

Eh it's a minor inconvenience but frustrating more at myself because I have legal means to view the shenanigans but I hindered myself in doing so.

anton

24-03-2017, 11:13 AM

9 minutes into the season :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsmUV7LUS0&feature=youtu.be

24-03-2017, 11:17 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7pcYWjU8AA08XA.jpg:large

6kg of Ballast in the front wing - damn

24-03-2017, 01:41 PM

"Yeah the fucking pom won 3 times, it's good to print mate"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7qQPmqUwAE3Hlq.jpg:large

DCIEVE

24-03-2017, 02:55 PM

McLaren livery looks terrible on TV. I know it's only fp2 but the lap time spread doesn't bode well. Hopefully Ferrari have something up their sleeve to make this interesting.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

hako

25-03-2017, 11:30 AM

McLaren livery looks terrible on TV.

Actually thought it looked better on TV compared to the press shots I saw.

More of a Volcano Orange rather than a McLaren / Papaya Orange though which I thought was odd.

25-03-2017, 11:50 AM

Stroll. Wall. Lol

25-03-2017, 02:49 PM

Stroll and Palmer

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7vpepzXgAARWmr.jpg:large

25-03-2017, 03:19 PM

2 men have 6 poles in Aus. #feels

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7vwS-MXUAA4P_S.jpg:large

heavyduty1340

25-03-2017, 03:28 PM

And Dan crashed....

DCIEVE

25-03-2017, 03:58 PM

Just about threw my beer at the TV when Dan went into the wall 😞
Glad to see Ferrari aren't too far off Mercedes, if Seb leads into t1 the race could get interesting.

heavyduty1340

25-03-2017, 06:06 PM

Had a look at his car.
Shouldnt be too hard to have out there tomorrow.

ELUSIV

25-03-2017, 06:30 PM

Glad to see the hope of Ferrari being able to fight Merc. Fingers crossed they can take it to them this year and this is a promising start.
Lewis and Seb are just at the top of their game and if they are matched in hardware we will be in for an awesome rivalry.

Dan's off was gutting. On the up side keen to see the honey badger dice his way through the field tomorrow! But wow when these cars run lose their aero it is like an on/off switch :/
It looked as though he might have been able to catch it at first but nope just completely ran out of grip.

Grosjean is a lot further up than expected, it is clear really how good the new Ferrari engine is. Awesome to see Massa up there again too. Stroll looked rubbish
A standout was Giovinazzi. Pretty much no practice, put in the car last minute and matched his team mate. Yes I know Ericsson isn't a great yard stick but given the circumstances I think that is a hell of an impressive debut and might be someone to watch over the next few years if he can find himself a seat.

25-03-2017, 06:42 PM

Ironically when his agent was shopping him last year no one had any interest.

Sometimes you need a little luck. Great drive however.

25-03-2017, 07:36 PM

lel
https://68.media.tumblr.com/696600ef119d5d0582f16cecb43efc44/tumblr_ond6uaIoRG1qmr2ujo1_500.png

25-03-2017, 07:39 PM

Ted

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-Jq1i_y4X0E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

summoner

26-03-2017, 07:22 AM

Sad Vettel couldnt get P1 but it does seem that it will be much closer which is fantastic.

Here's hoping today it remains close and not just a MGP walk off.

heavyduty1340

26-03-2017, 09:03 AM

Cooler day here today.
Gonna be an interesting day

Stealthed

26-03-2017, 12:47 PM

Hey, Anyone know where I can live stream the race? I'm in Canada at the moment making it hard to find a good stream

tinto

26-03-2017, 02:58 PM

Can anyone tell me why Lewis gets booed?
As a fair weather F1 fan, he doesn't come across as a wanker.

Is it because he's TJ's unrequited mate?

ELUSIV

26-03-2017, 03:33 PM

Can anyone tell me why Lewis gets booed?
As a fair weather F1 fan, he doesn't come across as a wanker.

Is it because he's TJ's unrequited mate?

A combination of Lewis being a pretentious cockhead and people sick of Mercedes dominating. That being said I hate driver's being booed, unless they did something overtly dangerous during that particular race it is completely unsportsmanlike and is a cringe every time i hear the crowd do it regardless of driver. Seems some people can't separate the two, i respect Lewis massively as a driver, but don't like his attitude or personality as a person.

So happy Vettel won. It was actually really promising to see how well he stuck with him in the dirty air and to me that deserves the drive of the day just for how long he held it on the edge to keep Lewis honest. Looking forward to more battles in the future and this could finally be the rivalry we've been waiting a long time for, when Lewis and Seb are in comparable performance cars.

Gutted for Dan and Grosjean. Shocker of a weekend for Dan and he is pretty philosophical about it as always and keeps his head high. Get his drink on and time with family and friends and reset for China!
Grojsean that is just rubbish luck and really looked to have a great points finish for Haas. Again a really important thing for the sport to keep the new teams in on the action to allow them to stay financially viable and remain in the sport.

Alonso man, I don't know how he has the patience. As usual dragged that car far further up the grid than it should have been just to get mugged by a rookie in a pink car...jeez :(

Overall great start to the season, cautiously optimistic but i expect it to be close from here on out between Merc and Ferrari for the first half of the season. I think it will really come down to strategy now to separate Lewis and Seb. Ferrari seems to be a bit kinder on the tires which on the 2 stop races would probably suit them better. Their strategy is going to have to be on point until they can get that little bit more to get their car on pole. I see RB potentially mounting a strong comeback by mid season once they get into the development swing.

27-03-2017, 08:01 AM

Re Lewis - anyone who calls him pretentious or arrogant or the like is clearly biased or doesn't follow the sport. He never makes any sort of crazy comments about how good he is etc. Another season, another load of it coming I guess, but far out.

As to how the fans got on the track:

"Announcement was made before the start that spectators had to wait till the course car had gone past with its green light flashing and siren on. Only then could specatators enter the track. Course car came out at turn 15 and had its green lights and siren on which was a mistake on their part. Probably should come out at pit exit in future. Marshalls opened the gates at turn 15 and 16 and the crowd spilled into the track. There were a few very near misses at pit entry."

MaTMaN

27-03-2017, 08:58 AM

Re Lewis - anyone who calls him pretentious or arrogant or the like is clearly biased or doesn't follow the sport. He never makes any sort of crazy comments about how good he is etc. Another season, another load of it coming I guess, but far out.

I have to agree with TJ on this one. Labelling him prententious or arrogant is way off the mark. He's more egotistical and conceited with a slight Narcissistic personality disorder than anything.

MadDocker

27-03-2017, 09:01 AM

The ad blocks on Foxtel pissed me right off.

esky

27-03-2017, 09:16 AM

I thoroughly enjoyed Dan's weekend, seeing the Ozzie bandwagon wheels fall off is always amusing.

I like Dan, i fucking hate the bandwagon.

summoner

27-03-2017, 09:52 AM

The ad blocks on Foxtel pissed me right off.

Necessary evil for AusGP because of sharing with FTA.

Back to normal ad free racing for the rest of the season thank fuck. Why do us elitists have to be punished for the peasantry is beyond me *raises nose to the air whilst holding a find cognac*

summoner

27-03-2017, 09:53 AM

I thoroughly enjoyed Dan's weekend, seeing the Ozzie bandwagon wheels fall off is always amusing.

I like Dan, i fucking hate the bandwagon.

Ferrari picking up all the band wagon fucks now sadly. First I had to deal with them as an RBR fan.. then they all jumped ship to Lewis/MGP and since testing they've all been crawling back to Ferrari. Their wardrobes must be pretty big to have enough various team merch to cover them for all outcomes.

27-03-2017, 09:58 AM

Forza Lewrarri!

ELUSIV

27-03-2017, 06:52 PM

I have to agree with TJ on this one. Labelling him prententious or arrogant is way off the mark. He's more egotistical and conceited with a slight Narcissistic personality disorder than anything.

Being pretentious and arrogant are related to egotistical and narcissistic traits, that are seen in a cluster of personality schemas including narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder.

From a diagnostic point of view it is very unlikely he would meet the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. A major factor shared with that cluster of disorders is the reliance on others for validation, and a goal directed behaviour that also serves a function to get external validation. I haven't seen any examples of those being true in Lewis, he appears to have a strong internal locus of control which is most likely reinforcing his sense of self-importance. To be fair, that is something seen in many people at the elite end of sports.
Diagnosing people has inherent challenges so using descriptors for traits or observable behaviours is a better way to go.

That is why I singled out being pretentious and arrogant, which from behavioural point of view is more specific about what patterns anyone who is unbiased and does follow the sport, can identify. These tap into his over inflated sense of self and grandiosity which only form a part of a narcissistic personality so you were on the right track by saying 'slight narcissistic' just a bit off.

But if you don't agree with me, feel free to consult the DSM V, or listen to many other's opinions who know him well, Alonso, Kubica, Button and others who have all described him as having too high an opinion of himself and being arrogant. Their words, not mine and given they know each other a lot better than us keyboard critics do, should carry some weight.

Without doing a personality inventory it is all speculation and completely off topic but it is important to correct your statements.

Source: Am a registered psychologist.

Apologies for de-railing.

crabman

27-03-2017, 07:33 PM

He wears prescription glasses when he doesn't require them/isn't a k-pop star. He is a flog. He is a good driver. But also a flog.

Wrexter

27-03-2017, 07:51 PM

The hate on Lewis is getting old. yeah yeah typical Wrexter. But seriously. Yeah he's different, so what. There's certainly bigger flogs on the grid.

ELUSIV

27-03-2017, 08:14 PM

The hate on Lewis is getting old. yeah yeah typical Wrexter. But seriously. Yeah he's different, so what. There's certainly bigger flogs on the grid.

Fair call and I am guilty of it for sure. We all have different people we support so will be mindful to respect that in future.

Buckets

27-03-2017, 08:14 PM

Name one.

Lewis is King of the flogs, a talented one I admit but he is #1 Champion of the Cumsocks and there's not really anyone who's even remotely close aside.

MaTMaN

27-03-2017, 08:33 PM

Being pretentious and arrogant are related to egotistical and narcissistic traits, that are seen in a cluster of personality schemas including narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder.

From a diagnostic point of view it is very unlikely he would meet the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. A major factor shared with that cluster of disorders is the reliance on others for validation, and a goal directed behaviour that also serves a function to get external validation. I haven't seen any examples of those being true in Lewis, he appears to have a strong internal locus of control which is most likely reinforcing his sense of self-importance. To be fair, that is something seen in many people at the elite end of sports.
Diagnosing people has inherent challenges so using descriptors for traits or observable behaviours is a better way to go.

That is why I singled out being pretentious and arrogant, which from behavioural point of view is more specific about what patterns anyone who is unbiased and does follow the sport, can identify. These tap into his over inflated sense of self and grandiosity which only form a part of a narcissistic personality so you were on the right track by saying 'slight narcissistic' just a bit off.

But if you don't agree with me, feel free to consult the DSM V, or listen to many other's opinions who know him well, Alonso, Kubica, Button and others who have all described him as having too high an opinion of himself and being arrogant. Their words, not mine and given they know each other a lot better than us keyboard critics do, should carry some weight.

Without doing a personality inventory it is all speculation and completely off topic but it is important to correct your statements.

Source: Am a registered psychologist.

Apologies for de-railing.

Lol :D I was only joking but fair call.

27-03-2017, 09:21 PM

HANS YOLO

27-03-2017, 09:42 PM

he was banging one of the hottest chicks on the planet...gotta make you feel some sort of way about yourself!

Fukushima

27-03-2017, 10:08 PM

Buckets Poetry

fourseven

28-03-2017, 10:00 AM

Look forward to you providing sourced quotes from the drivers listed. Especially from 2013 on - even he admits his time at Mclaren was not good for his growth.

You don't need sources. You're the Formula 1 wizard around these parts, you know that Button, Alonso, and Kubica have all commented on his arrogance and high opinion of himself. Button's comment was as recent as 2015 after Lewis went on a 10 day bender and missed media commitments.

Bernie Ecclestone
David Coulthard
Eddie Jordan
Damon Hill

All have made similar comments during broadcast.

About the only person who wouldn't say such a thing is Martin Brundle. But it's hard to say anything about Lewis when his balls are on Martin's chin.

28-03-2017, 10:06 AM

I will wait for sourced comments that are factual. Not opinion, or comment. Facts.

I am not the one trying to prove a bullshit petty argument.

To make it simple, just say "I don't like the guy"

Comments made by Eddie, Damon, David "oh his partying affects his driving" - nope, never did. They just wanted a story. In fact, his worst year where he clearly had shit going on was 2011 and he was still under the mclaren umbrella and controlled then.

I have always said I will take a F1 discussion with facts.

To be fair, anyone at the top of the sport, has to think highly of themselves also. But yeah, he would be the only sportsman on mega bucks, who is successful and thinks that way, right?

Pathetic.

Sebdullah

28-03-2017, 10:09 AM

I just don't like the guy

28-03-2017, 10:16 AM

Sweet Seb.

A very simple thing - people don't have to like the guy. But unfortunately for all of you, he will go down as one of the greats to have driven. I hope you enjoy it.

fourseven

28-03-2017, 10:23 AM

Jenson Button has warned his former teammate and now triple F1 world champion Lewis Hamilton not to get carried away with his success.

In the wake of some headline grabbing comments and incidents of late, Hamilton’s former McLaren teammate Jenson Button warned: “He’s pretty quickly becoming arrogant.”

Bild newspaper said Button was referring to the fact that Hamilton reportedly claimed he is “complete” as a driver, only failing to win races when he makes mistakes.

The McLaren-Mercedes star did his utmost to atone for his calamitous Fuji Speedway error – when he left his braking dangerously late into turn one at the start, sending cars scattering in his wake – by storming to pole position for the Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai this weekend, and he acknowledged in an interview with ITV that 'I don't have to win it at the first corner'.

However, whilst admitting that the British ace has had an overwhelmingly positive overall impact upon the sport since his arrival in the top flight last year, F1 commercial rights-holder Bernie Ecclestone has added his voice to those of some of Hamilton's rivals – ex-McLaren team-mate Fernando Alonso and former ally Robert Kubica chief amongst them – who believe the eight-time grand prix winner is making more enemies than friends within the paddock

“He is good for business,” the 77-year-old told German magazine Auto Motor und Sport, “[but] out of the car he is a little bit arrogant. I think he has slightly too high an opinion of himself and that irritates the other drivers.”

Lewis Hamilton has rejected Jackie Stewart’s claim that he is arrogant and over confident in his driving style.

The championship leader's temperament has been once more been put in the spotlight after his disappointing 12th place finish at the Japanese GP saw his lead over Felipe Massa cut to five points with just two races left.

“In the past I used to think Lewis was a bit arrogant,” says BBC Formula One presenter Suzi Perry, who joined Formula One in 2012, the same year Hamilton moved from McLaren to Mercedes. “I don’t think I was alone in thinking that either. But personally, I’ve completely changed my mind about him.

That was 2 minutes of Google searching. Everything is opinion, but it is the opinion of those who know him and work with him, and I'm not arguing whether he should think highly of himself or not, simply reminding you that people have commented on his arrogance and high opinion of himself.

These days I'm more of a Lewis fan than not. He's grown, but he burnt plenty of bridges along the way xox